left biblioblography: THE JURY IS IN - RADICAL ISLAM'S GOT TO GO

Thursday, August 10, 2006

THE JURY IS IN - RADICAL ISLAM'S GOT TO GO

Well, this link, at The Bacon Eating Atheist Jew's blog, pretty much made up my mind.

Here is the link.
Special note - I came across it today, in it's entirety, but it promptly went KA-PLOONK! - so here's the trailer:

I originally had the full length feature, but someone somewhere yanked it - apologies.

In the interests of survival, I'm going to have to go with the side that's less likely to slit my throat in the night. Much as I'm a leftie liberal, I fancy myself a pragmatist as well, and no amount of optimism is going to change the fact that I am more likely to have my brains blown out by a Palistinean than an Israeli if I were to walk down a street in the Gaza strip in broad daylight.

Let's get a few things straight here, however:


  1. I support Israel's existence, but by no stretch do I think they get carte blanche to do any damn thing they please. I don't think ANYONE gets a free pass, my country, their country, anyone's country. That includes Arabian, European, African. So I reserve the right to criticize freely, anything (and I mean ANYTHING) that I see fit. Regardless of race, creed, gender, geography.

  2. I'm not an anti-semite. Anybody who wants to contact me, here's my email: reluctantatheist@yahoo.com . We'll arrange a meeting. All accusers are welcome to come say it to my face.

  3. Note the operative word is radical. Dershowitz (whom I've never liked, since the OJ trial - let's face it, OJ did it, all the spin-doctoring in the world can't change the facts) qualifies the distinction in the film. There's a number of good qualifiers in the film - one is a woman who's father was a 'martyr'. Another was a woman who spoke about supporting the moderate muslims, who are too afraid to speak out for fear of retribution. A rally where Arabs were chanting 'Death to the terrorists'.
I received this in my mailbox (I subscribe to the Huffington Post):

"For Prager, the discussion was all about the morality of Israel's actions (he has called support of Israel's battle with Hezbollah "the most clarifying moral litmus test of our time"). For me, it's a question of strategy and effectiveness. There's no question that Israel has the moral right to defend itself against a fanatical terrorist organization that seeks to destroy it. But, as I've asked before, does Israel want to be right or does it want to win? And can victory be defined as anything other than the ability of Israel to guarantee the security and safety of its people?

Ultimately, the long-term security of Israel depends on isolating and marginalizing the vile, violent extremists in the region from the rest of the Arab and Muslim world. As Prager wrote in a recent column, not every Arab or every Muslim is an enemy of Israel. But Israel's current tactics are pushing more and more Middle East moderates to embrace the extremists.

As Robin Wright of the Washington Post put it on Larry King: "A staggering poll last week -- in a country with 17 different recognized religious groups, 87 percent said they backed Hezbollah, which is unprecedented in the history of Lebanon." Even more ominous for Israeli -- and American -- interests, Israel's all-out approach is bringing together the traditionally divided religious factions in the country, with 89 percent of Sunnis, 80 percent of Christians, and 80 percent of Druze siding with the Shia terrorists of Hezbollah."

Also:
"Prager also tried to frame the debate over Israeli strategy as a left/right issue. In truth, the idea that Israel is doing itself more harm than good is shared by those on both sides of the political spectrum. Chuck Hagel, the second ranking Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee, recently declared "The war against Hezbollah and Hamas will not be won on the battlefield." He cautioned that a continued air and ground assault by Israel "will tear apart Lebanon, destroy its economy and infrastructure, create a humanitarian disaster, further weaken Lebanon's fragile democratic government, strengthen popular Muslim and Arab support for Hezbollah, and deepen hatred of Israel across the Middle East."

Let's face facts, folks: Israel's approach isn't winning any converts. Let's take this to a personal level:

If someone I love, or care about, family member or friend, were killed due to his/her political leanings, what do I look at first? Do I say, "Well, they had it coming to them?", or "That's what you get for having those specific political leanings", or even "You got what you deserved"? Nope. My first reaction will of course be grief. Then rage, at the instrument(s) of my sorrow.

Between this ongoing conflict, and our ridiculous invasion of Iraq, well, the ranks are swelling. No one, Israeli or Lebanese, is going to look at the mutilated corpse of an infant, and shrug. No one is going to question the politics of the corpse. That's just the way people are. They are going to take an immediate stand, and demand justice (warranted or no). That's just how people are. Nobody wants a senseless death in their circle. No one.

Many of the more striking examples in the film:
  1. There's an ongoing propagandizing of the 'evil Jew' (gah! I hate stereotypes!), including cartoons, soap operas, all targeted at slandering the Israelis.

  2. Sound-bites of children advocating wholesale slaughter (from three years old and up).

  3. Shots of children handling firearms.
Towards the end, the comparison was made between the Nazis and the radical Islamites. An interview with a fellow who once had been high-ranking in Hitler's Youth.

But this turned the tide for me:

Hitler shaking hand with the Mufta of Jerusalem, in the late 1930's. Strangely, there's a dearth of google-able links to this little factoid.

The anti-semitism then and now is so obvious, I don't know how it could've escaped me.
One woman proposed that we (I assume that means the West) support and strengthen the moderates who are too afraid to speak up.
Let me address the constant refrain, "Why aren't the moderate Muslims speaking up/out about this?!?"
To which I reply:

The same reason PETA people go after rich white women with fur, rather than bikers wearing leather chaps. Who is more likely to do you violence? A white lady in a fur coat is far less likely to arrange your dental work, I'd think.
Be that as it may, this idea struck me:

The film emphasizes the constant propagandizing/demonizing of Jews in the Middle East. So, who has tried to put out counter-propaganda? Anyone?
Obviously, there's a distinct slant in the Arab-driven media. It's hammered in during the film. Has there been any anti-terrorist pamphleteering? I've written about Arabian misconceptions and stereotypes. I've also mentioned Al-Afif al-Akhdar in this post.

How does one counter disinformation? It seems to my humble eyes, that only information can do that.

And before we re-hash the tired old refrain, of figuring out who's to blame, a wonderful Japanese saying springs to mind:

"Fix the problem, not the blame."

'Cause let's face it folks: time's a-running out, and while we indulge the idiocy of acrimony, people are dying.

That's my nickel's worth: spend it quickly. The bell tolls. Let's hope it's not for thee, or me, or anyone else.

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16 comments:

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

I don't know that Israel is losing that many "friends" with their approach. Other than that, great post.

There is an Egyptian blogger who points out how hypocritical his brothers are.

And here is a site that digs deep to give a point of view that you don't see much in the West.

Bacon Eating Atheist Jew said...

They took it down. Your viewers will have to go to Youtube and see it in 9 parts if they wish for now at least.

Stardust1954 said...

I consider myself to be a liberal Democrat, and I think Bush is a total moron...but I also believe there is an increasing danger from radical muslim extremism. Today's thwarted terrorist plot is just more evidence that this threat is not going to go away. It's quite disturbing. These animals keep chipping away at our freedom and security. What's even more disturbing, these terrorists were "home grown" in Britain. 911 terrorists plotted HERE right under our noses. The US is full of mosques that are of the "fundamentalist" sort of muslims. If there was a call from Mecca or wherever to uprise against the "infidel" in the lands they are living in...what would we do?

Krystalline Apostate said...

BEAJ:
don't know that Israel is losing that many "friends" with their approach. Other than that, great post.
Thanks. Well, from what I gather from the Huffington, Hezbollah used to be a minor political faction. I'll have to rummage about.
I'm familiar w/Sandmonkey. It was his blog that I learned the term 'Paliwood'.
They took it down.
Yeah, gee, that was bloody quick. I tried to download it onto my PC, but the thing is tied to a server. Had to do the quick-fix nonsense. Why is it getting pulled, anyone know?
Stardust:
I consider myself to be a liberal Democrat, and I think Bush is a total moron...but I also believe there is an increasing danger from radical muslim extremism
There's dangers on both sides. From them, as well as us. If history teaches us anything, it teaches us that people spiral outta control.
I don't want to see us committing genocide, anymore than I want to see them committing it.
Besides which, how many times has someone tried to exterminate Jews? No 1's ever succeeded.
And no 1 ever will.
L'Chaim.
The US is full of mosques that are of the "fundamentalist" sort of muslims. If there was a call from Mecca or wherever to uprise against the "infidel" in the lands they are living in...what would we do?
As I understand it, the KSA is exporting Wahabbi extremists. Write the White House, tell him to sever ties, is all I can think of. Shrub's asshole buddies w/those cats, as I understand it.
These animals keep chipping away at our freedom and security.
I still have problems referring to other people as animals. Walid Shoebat (sp?)used to be an animal.
I wish there was some antidote to temporal lobe epilepsy. Some kind of chemical agent that changes the fervor to rational. Which of course, would provide another moral dilemma.

Stardust1954 said...

I still have problems referring to other people as animals.

I really don't know what to call those who blow up planes full of innocent people then --- "crazy death-worshipping islamist fundies?" Or "really, really bad people"? ;)

I don't want to see us committing genocide, anymore than I want to see them committing it.

I don't want to see this either. My son has a friend from college who is an Iranian-Swede (his ancestors are Iranian but his family considers themselves to be 100% Swedish...the family is no longer muslim). He went to school here and decided to stay because he was offered a very good job and loves it here and I would not want him or others of middle eastern descent who want to live their lives in peace and prosperity to be harrassed, or rounded up and lose their jobs and businesses like the Japanese during WWII.

I really don't know what is to be done about the muslim extremists who would do us harm. They aren't like our fundies who just want to "pray for us"...muslim extremists want to SEND us to hell.
I just hope our security is good enough to keep another 911 or worse from happening.

Krystalline Apostate said...

stardust:
I really don't know what to call those who blow up planes full of innocent people then --- "crazy death-worshipping islamist fundies?" Or "really, really bad people"? ;)
They've been brainwashed - I have trouble w/it: induced sociopathy?
1 of our biggest problems (in this country) is that we don't understand the mindset.
I would not want him or others of middle eastern descent who want to live their lives in peace and prosperity to be harrassed, or rounded up and lose their jobs and businesses like the Japanese during WWII.
Exactly.
I really don't know what is to be done about the muslim extremists who would do us harm. They aren't like our fundies who just want to "pray for us"...muslim extremists want to SEND us to hell.
If our government collapsed, & chaos reigned...I don't know. The xtians have been watered down & diluted so much, plus our society punishes people on an (almost) equal basis. The film showed 1 cat, if you find a 'kuffah' (unbeliever), you can take them, sell them, if you can't, kill 'em.
When WWII ended, Japan was crushed. They had a bushido mindset - men, women, children, all expected to commit seppuku (hari kiri, for the Westerners). Look at them now. A nearly complete turnaround.
I'm not a huge fan of the 'disproportionate response' mindset - but unless both parties come to the table, & hammer out an agreement, the futility of their cause has to be demonstrated.
I can only hope that somehow, it doesn't come to that.
There's got to be a better way. Here's hoping that in the darkest hour, someone somewhere will come to their senses.

vjack said...

Your mistake is drawing the line at "radical." All Islam has to go, as does all Christianity, and all other religions. The threat isn't just about the destructive conflicts ignited and maintained by religon; it is the irrationality that faith spawns. Belief in supernatural entities for which no evidence exists requires the believer to suspend reason. I cannot support this.

Krystalline Apostate said...

vjack:
Your mistake is drawing the line at "radical." All Islam has to go, as does all Christianity, and all other religions.
To some extent, you're preaching to the choir.
I am, however, a big proponent of human rights: 1 cannot dictate to people how & what they should or should not believe.
I would like nothing more than to see religion vanish from the face of this earth. The likelihood of that happening in our lifetimes is slim to none.
Belief in supernatural entities for which no evidence exists requires the believer to suspend reason. I cannot support this.
Hey, I oppose it too.
I will, however, not stand by if someone is forcing belief (or non-belief) on someone else. To do that would be to become that which we detest.
You cannot change the human heart at gunpoint.
So for now, the immediate threat needs be dealt with. The other religions? Long term. Education, combined w/the raising of many voices over time, will erode further the aged memes.

say no to christ said...

This is the perfect place for this link that I left on the other thread. Its about the dangers of religious beliefs and christianity.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6410112404402873027&q=naked+truth

CyberKitten said...

stardust1954 said: Today's thwarted terrorist plot is just more evidence that this threat is not going to go away.

and: What's even more disturbing, these terrorists were "home grown" in Britain.

Not to be *too* pedantic about this - it's a suspected plot rather than a thwarted one... and the 24 people aressted are suspected terrorists until it has been proven in a court of law that they were actually plotting something. We've had several high profile arrests over here that later proved to be completely groundless, so I think its best not to count our terrorists before the plot is hatched. The British police have made mistakes before - though at least this time no one died & it appears no one was even shot.

At the moment I'm skeptical about the whole incident but am open to be convinced. It'll be interesting to see exactly how many of the 24 will actually be charged with anything...

Krystalline Apostate said...

cyberkitten:
We've had several high profile arrests over here that later proved to be completely groundless, so I think its best not to count our terrorists before the plot is hatched.
Yeah, like this story at god4suckers.net -
http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/07/07/another-largely-aspirational-terror-plot-foiled/
http://baheyeldin.com/writings/terrorism/miami-seven-arrests-sea-of-david-and-yahweh-ben-yahweh.html
Those 'sea of david' guys.

Mesoforte said...

Today's thwarted terrorist plot is just more evidence that this threat is not going to go away.

The threat's been around for a very long time sadly. The problem is that as time passes between dramatic events, people forget about the danger. How many people today walk around with signs that say 'Remember Pearl Harbor'? Granted, that was and act of war, but 'terrorism' is just a form of warfare.

Consider the fact that many of the US armed servicemen & servicewomen are trained in terrorist fighting tactics when they are fighting a larger force and are at a serious disadvantage. (Such as being alone behind enemy lines.) These terrorist groups are probably using the only effective form of warfare against a more powerful nation. I mean, if they were to march out in a regular conflict, they would loose within days.

Oh well, I'm going to go back to working on my WW II Civ. I have to balance in out so that power is more equally distributed.

Krystalline Apostate said...

MF:
Consider the fact that many of the US armed servicemen & servicewomen are trained in terrorist fighting tactics when they are fighting a larger force and are at a serious disadvantage.
The actual term is 'guerilla tactics'. The original term 'terrorist' wasn't a pejorative. It became that due to reframing.

Krystalline Apostate said...

SNTC:
This is the perfect place for this link that I left on the other thread.
Sorry, but that video's a crock. I agree w/most of the info at the beginning, & it has some interesting content, but it relies too heavily on Kersey Graves' 16 crucified saviors book, which is out of favor in scholastic circles.
I'll be posting on this shortly.

say no to christ said...

Thanks Ra, I hadnt finish watching it and now I wont waste my time. I'm looking foward to your future post.

Krystalline Apostate said...

SNTC:
Thanks Ra, I hadnt finish watching it and now I wont waste my time. I'm looking foward to your future post.
Probably some time this week, so stay tuned! ;)