Friday, February 16, 2007


My good friend Mesoforte has tagged me for a meme - a fairly apt one, I might add, since I tend to bristle with aphorisms.

So, in descending order:

5. I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain. - Frank Herbert, Dune

4. Youth is a wonderful thing. Too bad it's wasted on the young - G. B. Shaw.

3. "Man, in his ignorance, supposed that all phenomena were produced by some intelligent powers, and with direct reference to him" - Ingersoll.

2. We are not entitled to our opinions; we are entitled to our informed opinions. - Harlan Ellison.

1. ....Drum roll, please......."Be the change that you want to see in the world." - Gandhi.

I now bequeath this dubious honor on Beep! Beep! It's Me! and Stardust.

Till the next post, then.

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beepbeepitsme said...

Cool. I will get on it as soon as I have pried my eyes open with a couple of cups of coffee. :)

Mesoforte said...

Sorry for not commenting sooner, I had was at a fire most of the weekend.

Ellison and Ingersoll have always been favorites.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Holy crap! Is everyone all right? Were you 1 of the 5 families?

Mesoforte said...


Nope, I work with the Limestone County Emergency Response Team (CERT) whenever I'm at home. (My dad is one of the people who heads it.) So, we got to bring the command trailer to the scene and observe the fire. If they had called Tehuacana VFD, I would have been able to fight the grass fire though.

Krystalline Apostate said...

MF - good to know you're all right.
So you're a volunteer firefighter?

Mesoforte said...

So you're a volunteer firefighter?

I could swear we've talked about this before, but I volunteer for Tehuacana VFD whenever I'm at home (we mainly deal with grassfires, so I don't have to worry about formal fire training.) Its a very 'country' for of firefighting too. In the summer, we usually fight in t-shirts and jeans and in the winter we might have a fire jacket that we wear until we get there.

Krystalline Apostate said...

MF - We very well may have, so please forgive a forgetful old man - the ginkgo Biloba seems to have worn off. ;)
You're a wunnerful person (if I've said that before, please forgive me again).

Mesoforte said...

so please forgive a forgetful old man

That's alright, I think it was a post when goose was here, and you know how quickly those fly by. ^_~

Krystalline Apostate said...

That's alright, I think it was a post when goose was here, and you know how quickly those fly by. ^_~
I wonder whatever happened to the Goosester? He was irritating in a childlike 'why?' sorta way. You know, when you answer a little kid, kid says why again, ad infinitum?
Was curious on your take in re: my 'Cogito' post, BTW.

Mesoforte said...

Was curious on your take in re: my 'Cogito' post, BTW

Didn't I do that already? I mean, what are you looking for?

Its not surprising we find structures in nature (particle accelerators), especially with the existence of neutrinos.

The second one makes me think of mythic golems. The connection is probably more along the lines of skin tone and civilation's link to agriculture (messing with dirt, all life is dependant upon dirt.)

The Psalms verse doesn't defy relativity, it states that said being expieriences our concept of a 'long' period of time as 'short.' It doesn't speak of immortality, only a long life. (And if relativity applies, its moving really really really fast) And if it exists within time, its exists within space and is part of the universe. So, its not a 'trandscendant' being. The Psalms verse isn't confirming relativity either, its just saying that people can't comprehend how their god views human lives. Lastly, Psalms is poetry and song, not good theology [which I am assured is an oxymoron.]

The fourth one rests upon the concept of evil that is by far a social construct. Evil is what societies percieve it to be, and they change it as they learn. There just aren't concrete examples of humans immediately having a concept of evil.

The fifth is no problem. From what I understand, there is a possibility that we are 'self-observed' or something similiar to that. More observations and more research are needed. And atheists have no problem with uncertainty. The realm of uncertainty is our playground.

Mesoforte said...

You have to understand KA, the way I argue is completely different from your post. Seriously, I have developed a predictable pattern-

1. I define what I am.
2. I ask the person to define what they are (unless that isn't needed.)
3. I ask for the definition and attributes of god/spirit/etc.
4. I test the attributes and definition for interal consistency and evaluate its meaning.
5. I then ask for and process the evidence that is presented to show whether the belief is rational or irrational.
6. I then go into the arguments of reason over faith, how sensory percetion works, etc.

This is how I've argued for a while now. It presents quite a formidable challenge for people who bother me. And most people don't expect it. Considering the process I use, evidence and 'strange' phenomenon are subordinate to a definition of god.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Crap. Missed your post on that thread. Sorry. Had a bit of a scare - ran off to the ER this afternoon.
All is cool. & thanks.

Mesoforte said...

Had a bit of a scare - ran off to the ER this afternoon.

Going to the ER is never fun. You sure you're alright?

Krystalline Apostate said...

MF - yeah, they cut me loose in about 3 hours time.
Left arm's always botherin' me, sometimes I get pains in my chest.
Problem is, these symptoms fall outside known categories. Not angina, not stroke, not heart failure. HBP's always been a bit of a problem.
I just have to cut back on a few bad habits, is all.
Thanks for asking.