left biblioblography: Proof-Reading The 'Prophecies'

Sunday, March 25, 2007

Proof-Reading The 'Prophecies'

It’s that time, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, theists and atheists, for my Sunday sermon. This is a long one folks: no napping, or your knuckles’ll be rapped by a ruler! Communion will be administered via a Nabisco cracker and some sparkling Apple cider (hey, it IS the 21st century, after all!).

This laughable instance is brought to you by these folks:

Let us begin paring away the platitudes, and examining the misconceptions:

The "seed of a woman": Genesis 3:15.... Galatians 4:4.
Jesus was born of Virgin Mary without any man involved in His conception (Is.7:14, Mat.1:23, Lk.1:27).
- Gen.3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
- Gal.4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law. (Luk.2:7; Rev.12:5)

Firstly, the Genesis passage is NOT a prophecy. The Gal/Luke/Rev. was coverage, due to the ongoing rumor that JC was a bastard, & had a centurion father.

Descendent of Abraham: Genesis 12:3, 18:18.... Acts 3:25, Matthew 1:1.
- Gen. 18:18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. (Gen. 12:3)
- Act. 3:25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, "Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed." (Mt.1:1; Lk.3:34)

The Genesis passage, again taken out of context. God is promising Abraham that his nation will be mighty (never really happened, historically). Then segues off to destroying Sodom. All Acts and Matthew (who was the LAST person anyone should listen to, if he existed) do is promise the followers that they will overcome: what prophet does otherwise? This is one of those retrofits Christians love.

3- Descendent of Isaac: Gen.17:19, Luc.3:34.
- Gen.17:19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him."
-Mt.1:2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers. (Lk.3:34)

Covenant is for the nation only. Paring it down to fit the Messiah is simple rubbish. Note also that eight years later, after said promise is made, Abram's commanded to sacrifice his son. Can you say bi-polar, boys and girls?

4- Descendent of Jacob: Numbers 24:17... Luke 3:34, Matt.1:2.
- Num.24:17 I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.
- Luke 3:34 The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor. (Mt.1:2)

This is basically a promise that the surrounding nations will be subjugated to Israel. Nothing more.

5- From the Tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10, Luke 3:33.
- Genesis 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
- Luke 3:33 The son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah. (Mt.1:2-3)

Sure wish these people would do these passages in order. Don’t know if this is intentional: lazy people will just take one’s word for it. Besides, this is talking about JUDAH, which is not Israel. Israel and Judah were brothers, not nations, up till this. They established separate nations.

6- Heir of the Throne of David: Isaiah 9:7.... Luke 1:32-33.
- Isaiah.9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. (Isaiah.11:1-5; 2Sam.7:13)
- Luk.1:32-33: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." (Mt.1:1, 1:6)

Ahem. Don’t need to look this up. Isaiah (who had a number of prophecies that never came true, as in ALL) was in no way predicting Jesus’ coming. Everything in Isaiah was based on current events. Look it up.

Birth and Childhood:

7- Born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2.... Matthew 2:1.... Luke 2:4-7.
- Micah.5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from ancient times.
- Mt.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. (Lk.2:4-7)

Micah 5:1 reads, “Now gather thyself in troops, o daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon thy cheek”, and the reader is invited to read the ENTIRE BLOODY CHAPTER! Talks about the Assyrians, Micah 4 talks about the captivity (Egyptian? Never happened. Maybe Babylonian?).

8- To be born of a Virgin: Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18.... Luke 1:26-35.
- Isaiah.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
- Mt.1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: his mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:26-35)

Utter and complete crap. No one in the NT called Jesus Immanuel, which is a proper name. Also, it was an imminent prophecy, fulfilled in Isaiah 8. The ‘virgin’ in question was actually a prophetess. Look it up.

9- Time of his birth: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1:
- Dan.9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven "sevens" and sixty two "sevens." It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
- Lk 2:1-2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was the governor of Syria.) (Lk 2:3-7)
- Mat.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

Simple, convenient retrofitting. Let’s call the ‘weeks’ anything else but: it doesn’t fit the facts properly.

10- Slaughter of the Innocent children: Jeremiah 31:15.... Matthew 2:16-18.
- Jeremiah.31:15 This is what the Lord says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
- Mt.2:16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. (Mt 2:16-1 )

Utter folderol. Rachel’s children were returned to her. No proof exists for the infanticide.

11- Flight to Egypt: Hosea 11:1.... Matthew 2:14-15.
- Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son
- Mt.2:14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt. (Mt 2:15)

Hosea passage is distinctly talking about Ephraim. Bullocks.

12- He shall be called a Nazarene: Judges 13:5.... Matthew 2:23.
- Judges 13:5 for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God
- Mt.2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene

Completely wrong. Nazarite and Nazarene are completely different animals (let’s skip the fact that Nazareth never existed until the 4th century!) Judges is a direct reference to SAMSON!

13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9.... John 12:13-14.
- Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Isa.62:11)
- Jn.12:13-14 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, "Hosanna!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Blessed is the King of Israel!" Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written. (Mt.21:1-11; Jn.12:12, Mk.11:7-9.)

Zechariah is completely about Israel’s dominion over neighboring states. Inapplicable. Matthew screws up again! Matthew also has JC riding in on two different animals simultaneously, in a hilarious effort to retrofit to Zechariah. The Messiah as a rodeo clown!

14- Entry through the "Golden Gate", that shall be shut forever after his entrance: Ezekiel 44:1-2.... Mark 11:7-8.
On Palm Sunday Jesus entered Jerusalem through the Golden Gate. When you go to Jerusalem look at the Golden Gate, it is shut with stone and cement, and with a Muslim cemetery in its front, through which a Jewish Messiah will never pass.
- Ez.44:1-2 Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut. 2 The LORD said to me, "This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD , the God of Israel, has entered through it.
- Mk.11:7-8 When they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks over it, he sat on it. Many people spread their cloaks on the road, while others spread branches they had cut in the fields.

Wow. Tough read Ezekiel 44:1-2 - seeing as it’s sandwiched between the purification of the temple and the portioning of the land, it is simply an oblique way of saying, “Jews only”. Had to actually look it up - the Internet sites bury this into their folderol of prophecy.

15- Betrayed by a friend, for 30 pieces of silver: Zechariah 11:12, Psalm 41:9... Mark 14:10, Matthew 26:14-15.
- Ps.41:9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.
- Mk.14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. (Mt.26:14-16; Mk.14:43-45)
- Zec.11:12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. (Zec.11:13)
- Mt.26:15 And asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. (Mt 27:3-10)

Matthew/Mark were retrofitting (or retrofitted) for the Zech passages. It’s obvious, when one reads the ENTIRE chapter, this is no prophecy.
It’s pretty much ranting and raving about workman’s ethics.
Psalms - David is talking about Saul (Ps.41:9), obviously.

16- Money to be returned for a potter's field: Zechariah 11:13.... Matthew 27:6-7.
- Zec.11: 13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter"- the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
- Mt.27:6-7 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. (Mt.27:3-5,8-10)

See above. He paid the potter, and fired some people

17- Judas's position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8.... Acts 1:18-20.
- Ps.109:7-8 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him. May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership
- Act.1:18-20 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) "For, " said Peter, "It is written in the book of Psalms, "'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "'May another take his place of leadership.'" (Ac 1:16-17)

Utter crap. Ps. 109 is pretty much exhortation, “fix my enemies for me”. Note 109-9 says “Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.” Judas wasn’t married.

18- Accused by false witnesses: Psalms .27:12, 35:11.... Mt 26:60-61, Mk.14:57.
- Ps.27:12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes, for false witnesses rise up against me, breathing out violence. (Ps.35:11)
- Mt.26:60-61 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two men came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"

PS. 27:10 -“When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up.”

Ahem. Mary never abandoned JC: she was there at his alleged crucifixion. What ever happened to Joseph?

19- Silent to accusations: Isaiah 53:7.... Matthew 26:62-63, Mark.15:4-5.
- Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38: 13-14)
- Mt 26:62-63 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God!" (Mt 27:12-14, Mk.15:4-5)

The only point I can make w/Isa.53:7 is that it is exclusively in the past tense.

Isaiah 50:1 - “Thus saith the Lord, where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement, whom I have put away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves and for your transgressions is your mother put away.” This is entirely about Israel.

21- Hated without reason: Psalms 69:4, 35:19, 109:3-5.... John.15:24-25.
- Ps 69:4 Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal. (Ps.35:19, 109:3-5)
- Jn.15:23-25 He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: "They hated me without reason."

Ps: 69:35 - For God will save Zion, and will build the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession.” Judah vanished long ago, & has never come back

22- Soldiers divided his garments and gambled for his clothing: Psalm 22:18... Matt.27:35 (2 Prophecies)
- Ps 22:18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots (Mk.15:24).

The Psalms are obviously a long lament of David, and are NOT prophecies. And the Romans only did this for JC? Also, it is to be noted, that the Romans provided the garment. If they were going to let someone’s sweat and blood be all over it, why would they want it? It was a freebie: why gamble over it?

23- Crucified, "pierced through hands and feet": Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16.... Matthew 27:35, John 20:27.
- Ps.22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. (Zec.12:10)
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him.
- Jn. 20:25-26 Now Thomas (called Didymus)... he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." (Jn.19:37, 20:27)

Zechariah - see above comment. Ps: 22:16 - From http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/pierce.html - “The King James Version and modern fundamentalist versions of the Bible, such as the NIV and the NKJV, translate Psalm 22:16 thus:
Psalm 22:16 KJV/NIV/NKJV For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
Surely, the believer will assert, this is one certain example of a prophecy fulfilled: "they pierced" can only refer to the puncturing of Jesus' flesh by the nails used in the crucifixion. It is then added that this translation is supported by the various ancient versions of the Bible. The Latin translation, the Vulgate, for instance, uses the word foderunt, which is the third person plural perfect verb for fodio, which means "to prick", "to sting", "to jab", "to dig" or "to prod". Thus foderunt could be reasonably translated as "they pierced" or "they have pierced". Similarly the ancient Greek version, the Septuagint, the word used is oruxan (??????) which supposedly means "to bore through".
"The Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT) however, has a different word here. In order to see the picture clearly, I will provide the Hebrew as well the transliteration and meaning below.
Hebrew Alphabets yod resh aleph kaf
Transliteration Y R (no sound) K
Pronunciation Kaari
"Remember that Hebrew is read from right to left and in its original Biblical form is purely consonantal-the vowel points were added by later scribes (probably around 700 CE). Thus for subsequent discussion we will concentrate only on the consonantal text. The word shown above actually consists of two words, the first letter (on the right) kaf, is a preposition (called an inseparable preposition because it is always attached to a noun), which means, in this case, "like" (as in similar to). The next three letters, aleph-resh-yod, form the noun ari which means "lion". The word is pronounced as kaari and is translated as "like (a) lion". Thus the words "they pierced" are not found in the MT. In the Jewish translation of the Tanakh this is what we find:
Psalm 22:17 JPS For dogs have compassed me; a company of evil doers have enclosed me; like a lion they are at my hands and my feet.”

24- Crucified with malefactors: Isaiah 53:12.... Mark 15:27-28.
- Isa.53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
- Mt 27:38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. (Mk 15:27-28; Lk 23:33)

See above on Isa:53

25- Agonized in Thirst: Psalm 22:15.... John 19:28.
- Ps.22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
- Jn.19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

See above comment on Psalms.

26- Given gall and vinegar: Psalm 69:21.... Matthew 27:34, 48, John 19:19.
- Ps.69:21 They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.
- Mat.27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink (Jn.19:29, Mat.27:4

See above comment on Psalms.

27- No bones broken: Psalm 34:20.... John 19:32-36.
- Ps 34:20 He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (Ex 12:46)
- Jn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

Utter crap. Human foot contains hundreds of bones - how do tendons and cartilage support a full-grown man’s weight? See above website.

28- His side pierced: Zechariah 12:10.... John 19:34.
- Zec.12:10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
- Jn 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

See above comments on Zechariah

29- Deserted by God: Psalm 22:1.... Matthew 27:46.
- Ps.22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
- Mat.27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

See above on Psalms

30- Vicarious Sacrifice: Isaiah 53:4-5, 6, 12.... Matthew 8:16-17, Romans 4:25, 5:6-8, 1 Corinthians 15:3.
- Isa.53:4-5 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. (Is. 53:6, 12)
- Mt.8:16-17 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases." (Ro 4:25, 5:6-8, 1Cor 15:3)

Can’t anyone see Isaiah 53 is past tense?

31- Buried with the rich: Isaiah 53:9, Matthew 27:57-60.
- Isa.53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
- Mt.27:57-60 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away

See above. See also http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/burial.html

32- Deserted by his followers: Zechariah 13:7.... Mark 14:27.
- Zec.13:7 smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
- Mk.14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

Again, Zechariah firing his workers!

33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
- Doing the proper computations, the Messiah was supposed to die on April 3, of the year 33 AC (Open Bible page.833)

Real interesting, how nobody seems to understand the concept of weeks when interpreting this.

34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15..... Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
- Hosea.6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
- Lk.24:6-7 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

Really, people should just read the whole damn chapter, not cook up theories based on singular passages. And why is it that none of these people understand the difference between him and us?

35- Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10... Matthew 27:52-53.
- Isa.26: 19 Thy dead men shall live; together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
- Ez.37:7-10 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
- Mat.27: 52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Isaiah: 26: 19 Being as Isaiah 23 and 25 are talking about Tyre and Moab, respectively, this is a long flowing speech designed to incite loyalty, nationality, and love. It does read like a prophecy. Frighteningly so.
The Ez: 37 chapter is in no way a prophecy: Firstly, it reads like a direct rip-off of the Greek myth of Jason and the teeth of Cadmus. Secondly, if one reads the ENTIRE chapter, it is about the reunion of Judah and Israel, and here are some other select bits and parts to refute this reading: Ez.37:19, “Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and the shall be one in mine hand.”
Ez.37:24 - “And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall….,etc”

However, Matthew is the ONLY one among the four to even speak of this, (raising of the saints) and note that Paul makes no mention of it whatsoever.

36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3...Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19.
- Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
- Ps.24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
- Lk 24:50-51 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven
- Act.1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

37- Christ at the Right hand of the Father: Psalm 110:1... Hebrews 1:2,3.
- Ps.110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
- Hebrews.1: 2,3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

See commentary above on Psalms.


38- The way prepared by John the Baptist: Isaiah 40:3,5.... John 1:23, Luke 3:3-6.
- Isa.40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
- Jn.1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaiah

Isa.40:3 is simply a selective reading. 39:1, “at that time Merodachbaldan, son of Baladan, king of Babylon, sent letters to Hezekiah….”
Isa.40-42 is a long, mellifluous song that results in Isa.43, where God gives Israel the following: Egypt, Ethiopia, and Seba (which never happened).

Cries of 'Foul', 'Out of context' and the like will be rewarded with sitting in a corner facing away from the class, while wearing a dunce cap and being subjected to continuous jeering by the rest of the class. Comprende?


Discuss among yourselves.

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Sadie Lou said...

must. give. my. eyes. a. break.

I'll be back later.

Lorraine said...

Goodness, you weren't kidding about the length of this post. Will have to come back and read more after work. Wow.

I'd not heard the rumor that Jesus was the son of a centurion. That's fascinating! Was his name Nautius Maximus or Biggus Dickus, by chance??

You knew *someone* was going to have to bring that up. ;-)

Krystalline Apostate said...

Well, this post was actually in response to you rolling your eyes at me over at Beep's. This is actually an old, OLD post I cobbled up coupla years ago, but never posted on.

Was his name Nautius Maximus or Biggus Dickus, by chance??
It was Pandeira. In the LoB, Brian was the son of a centurion. Years later, while researching, I discovered the old rumor, & on watching LoB, realized the connection.

Chris Bradley said...

That "son of a centurion" thing gets some play in Simon Peter, hehe. Tho' I didn't notice the connection to the Life of Brian until it was brought up, here. D'oh!

I, myself, await Sadie's response with baited breath because, y'know, KA is right. Almost all, if not all, of the prophesies that they attribute to referring to Jesus well, uh, don't. A few of them are ambiguous enough that, turned sideways, you might fit Jesus in, but almost all of them clearly refer to someone or something else (often not a prophesy at all).

karen said...

Yes, very long.
I think, no, I'm sure it's way over the total recommended amount of biblical verses a day for me.

eeeeEEEEEEeeeeee!!! I'm m_e_l_t_i_n_g_!

and I'm confused.
These were all supposed to be prophesies???

remy said...

I wish more xians would read the texts in question with a critical eye but, as has been witnessed at NGB, those who read them do so a la carte, and with days or weeks intervening. Others rely on the official interpreters of the sacred texts.

This morning I listened to one such expert who pronounced everything in the texts to be good because the book says so. EVERYTHING the saviour did or said was good, even the temper tantrum in the temple. He didn't say anything about the cursing of the olive tree for it's lack of olives, even though it was not yet time for olives. Perhaps I'll write and ask.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Chris - don't feel bad, I noticed it about a year later after the umpteenth time of watching LoB.
Yeah, it's that old allegory thingamabob - I always hear from xtians about how I 'quote outta context', to which I say, 'Tu quoque'?
“No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: He is always convinced that it says what he means” - Shaw.

I think, no, I'm sure it's way over the total recommended amount of biblical verses a day for me.
Snort, chuckle, you're so cute, love.
These were all supposed to be prophesies???
Short answer: yes.
The claim is always that there are 100's of prophecies, but if 1 actually gets pedantic, 1 finds that no, none of them came true.
I can go on at length just on Isaiah alone. But I shan't, as I've had my fill of long-winded exegesis for this week. ;)

Krystalline Apostate said...

remy - that was the cursing of the fig tree, for not bearing any fruit out of season.
Some folks claim that was a metaphor for Israel, since the Jews refused to recognize Mr. mythical.

Sadie Lou said...

I, myself, await Sadie's response with baited breath because, y'know, KA is right

ugh. I'm not coming back to indulge your ego. It's inflated enough.
Sorry, KA. I don't debate for blood sport antics--maybe another time? Another place? Chris scares me--to be frank.

Krystalline Apostate said...

sadie - blood sport antics?
You're on my blog, & I run a clean 1 here. Probably why my readership isn't as large as I like - but you're a guest in my sandbox, as is Chris.
Besides which, you're armed w/the truth, are you not? Chris can't do you any harm, nor can anyone else here. Words only have the power you give them.
So please - do explain away the inconsistencies I've listed here. Unless, of course, you can't.

remy said...

Thanks for the correction K. I thought I had left all this behind But just when I thought I was out...

It may take Sadie a few yaers for it to sink in but I think her flight represents a hair-line crack.

karen said...

AW, Chris, why'd you have to go and scare sadie away!?
And I was looking forward to her answers to KA, too.

Have the two of you gotten into it somewhere else? I've not noticed that you've (Chris) have been especially unkind toward sadie here.

bUT THAT'S ok sadie; we all know this bible blather isn't defensible. It's wise to give up a useless battle before it gets bloody.

Krystalline Apostate said...

karen - I know they've exchanged a word or 2 at beep's, but nothing unduly harsh that I could tell.
It's too bad: I rather liked her. Nice gal.

remy - sadly, there's a degree of fragility among theists. Still, she might come back.

Sadie Lou said...

KA & Karen--
Here's the thing that I find mildly upsetting and I was asking my husband about it last night too:
How do you (KA & CHRIS) know more about my faith than I do?
It's really troubling and frustrating, I might add. Now, I'm being really vulnerable here so I would appreciate it if you can spare me the wisecracks about being brainwashed. I started out as an atheist and my husband was a non practicing Catholic. He became a non denominational Christian about a year into our marriage and then it was a year later that I got saved.
Responding to a post like this is super daunting, I think it would take me FOREVER to take down all your information and then write out an answer. Where do you find the enthusiam?
For me, there is no question as to God's exsistance. I do not doubt Jesus' death and ressurection.
I believe that what the Bible says is true. I have seen God's work in people's lives.

Now what in the hell do I do about this post?
Where are you getting this information? Have you studied this somewhere? Did you take a class?
Maybe i'll just take one of your examples and just examine that for a minute--I'm just really overwhelmed by the idea that there are atheists out there that devote this much time and energy to refuting God's word--it's foreign to me.

and then to do this, as a novice, in front of someone like Chris that is just waiting (with baited breath) for me to screw up and make a mistake, is intimidating. Surely you all can understand that?

Krystalline Apostate said...

How do you (KA & CHRIS) know more about my faith than I do?
Well, I can’t speak for Chris: I was seriously considering joining the faith. I really was. I’m 1 of those people who, if they get interested in a subject, do a thorough investigation of the topic. I’ve found over the years, that it’s always best to do one’s homework. I left some links about my ‘non-conversion’ at your site.
As you see it, this is a core value in your belief system. As such, you consider it a large component of your life, do you not? Personally, I make it my business to know everything both pro & con about where I stand. That’s just me.
Now, I'm being really vulnerable here so I would appreciate it if you can spare me the wisecracks about being brainwashed.
Well, I’ll do my level best to be nice.
Responding to a post like this is super daunting, I think it would take me FOREVER to take down all your information and then write out an answer.
Take your time. If you wish to do it piecemeal, that’s fine by me. It IS a lotta info to parse.
Where do you find the enthusiam?
Lotso coffee & a big mouth, that’s me.
For me, there is no question as to God's exsistance. I do not doubt Jesus' death and ressurection.
There was a point where I thought the same.
I believe that what the Bible says is true. I have seen God's work in people's lives.
The former? I applied inductive logic to it. I did the research. The latter? That’s the people: everyone wants to be loved. & what’s easier than an unconditional invisible deity, that someone doesn’t need to interact w/physically, other than to pray & worship? Not being smart here: that’s observational.
Where are you getting this information? Have you studied this somewhere? Did you take a class?
This info is readily available in your book, & I’m an avid reader. Nope – no classes. I’m a firm believer in doing my own research, especially about a topic as intense as this.
Maybe i'll just take one of your examples and just examine that for a minute--I'm just really overwhelmed by the idea that there are atheists out there that devote this much time and energy to refuting God's word--it's foreign to me.
Well, for 1, like I said, it’s a very old post – May of last year. #2 is, we atheists frequently get challenged on this: a lotta folks yank out bible verses w/such regularity, it’s expected (I’ve been accused of bringing 0 scholarship to the table before). #3, is a large number of us were INDEED religious, only to find out later it was a crock. The response is fairly predictable. #4 is, right now I’ve a lotta time on my hands. #5 is, most of us are deeply concerned, not only about our fellowman/woman being misled, but the fanatic minority that’s in power is trying to jumpstart armageddon, due to their beliefs. #6 is, that we’re a minority, & as such are subjected to numerous unfair & stupid stereotypes. Here’s 1: you say you were an atheist. Was that just general apathy? A ‘shrug, I dunno & I don’t care?” sort of thing? That’s apatheism, BTW. For the most part, we DO care about something: our species’ survival. ‘If this is it, why should I care about the next generation anyways’ would only apply to people made of stone, w/o hearts or altruism.
and then to do this, as a novice, in front of someone like Chris that is just waiting (with baited breath) for me to screw up and make a mistake, is intimidating. Surely you all can understand that?
Of course it is. Take your time. Better yet, compose a post in response to it, if you prefer.

karen said...

It IS daunting to take on the likes of KA, and Chris, and beepbeep. It's got to be even moreso when you're the only one with the opposing opinion at a particular site. I know that I ran into that scenario at some xian blogs.

But you seem to be pretty level-headed and fairly liberal, compared to most blogxians I've come across, and so i was curious to see your response to this entry of KA's.

As he said, most of us have been believers at some point, and are as or more familiar with the bible as life-longers. It's not because we are obsessed with the god idea even though we no longer believe, but that we need to be ready to argue points brought up by the other side. Also, much thought and study is usually given to the debate before abandoning religion. We don't just wake up one day and say, "Today's the day I stop believing."

This post confused me, what with all the verses juxtaposed from all over the bible and all. (It's been a LONG time since I read the thing.) I couldn't believe that all those verses were supposed to be prophecies. You learn something new every day, I guess. And for me it just strengthens the issue that one can interpret the bible any way one likes; that just adds to the nonsensicalness (word?) of the tome.

Anyway, I hope you decide to share your thoughts.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Karen - I'm daunting? Didn't you compare me to a teddy bear, not long ago? ;)

karen said...

Yep, but if my teddy bear started talking about baroque meritocricies, and critiquing the bible and throwing about Latin phrases, I'd be a little daunted by the TB, too. :D

Now, shhhhh, and snuggle up.

Krystalline Apostate said...

karen -
PPPPURRRRR...oh wait, what sound do teddy bears make when they're snuggling?