Monday, March 05, 2007


I was doing research for a story idea the other day on the Nephilim and Grigori (the latter actually plays a small but crucial role in my first novel, Hook's Quest), when I stumbled across this site. (Note to self: I've simply gotta crack down and get these things written, instead of following these bunny trails on the Web.)

I really, really shouldn't get startled when I run across this sort of bizarre baroque meritocracy.

This is attributable to a Mr. Steven Quayle. He starts out with a (ta-DAH!) biblical verse:
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4"

Cue the ominous foreshadowing music - he's got some BAD NEWS!

"Stretch your mind back to childhood. What giants do you remember? Jack and the Beanstalk? Hercules? Paul Bunyan? Goliath? What were you told and what did you read? With the exception of Goliath and an occasional ornery cyclops, legends emphasized their innate goodness, eye-popping feats accomplished with unparalleled strength, victories over the bad guys and all performed by "gentle giants". What if it were all a lie? What if the truth were something much MUCH more sinister?"

Bad news: it IS all a lie. The truth is that a few stories of gigantism grew...larger with the retelling.

"I have invested over 30 years researching the vast history of giants. It has, for the most part, been kept from the public. Proof of giants' existence - their skeletal remains - has been quickly secreted away in obscure museums, when not destroyed. Additionally, time has cloaked and sugar-coated these creatures' true perverse nature, the majority too vile, too demonic for bedtime stories. However, history is replete with their tales of unimaginable cruelty, sexual perversity, cannibalism and pagan rituals. This is only the beginning. Some things are best forgotten. . . or are they?"

Hey, the history of humanity is replete with these stories. They were just people.

"Where did these giants come from and what was their connection with ordinary humans? Just who were they? What happened to these extraordinary creatures? Is it possible they could ever return? The last question I will answer right now - YES, they most definitely could return! And they have something much worse in mind for mankind."

This is an interesting variant on presuppositionalism, I'll grant you that. They were just folks that suffered from gigantism - it's an imbalanced pituitary gland.

I wonder if this guy's any relation to Dan Quayle? It would explain a whole lot.

And, of course, this fellow mixes and matches at leisure. Oh, did I mention he's a creationist? Hoo boy, these people are just so far out there. And he (I kid you not) mixes in all sorts of folderol, from UFO sightings to the faux Paluxey hoax (Dinosaurs walked with men!). There's even a bit about Giants having a hidden base on the Solomon Islands, no less!

Oh, and there's a bit of major skullduggery in the site, if you know where to look:

"Philo, usually known as Philo the Jew (Philo Judaeus) or Philo of Alexandria (a city in Egypt with a large Jewish Diaspora population in Greco-Roman times), lived from about 20 B.C. to about AD. 50. He is one of the most important Jewish authors of the Second Temple period of Judaism and was a contemporary of both Jesus and Paul. Yet, Philo is not nearly as well known or as frequently read as the first century AD. Jewish historian Josephus."

Ummm...hello? Philo never once mentioned Jesus. But of course, our intrepid investigator never lets the evidence bar his way, oh no! The excerpt in question is obviously an interpretation of the Talmudic verses, not an 'eyewitness' account.

His website is peppered with photos of giants from recent times. I'm guessing, but the context is that the 'giants' (read: Nephilim) have survived till the present day.

Let's just hypothesize that the 'Great Deluge' actually occurred (yeah, yeah, we know there's absolutely no evidence to support this - it's make-believe, gimmee a break). So his own book of fables says:

"Gen. 6:8-13
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth

Said book specifically states that, in Genesis 7:21-22 that all flesh died, that all in whose nostrils was the breath of life and of all that was in the dry land.

Of course, Quayle has a different interpretation:

"Thus it is clear from scripture that there were giants in the earth both before and after the flood and that they came from a union of fallen angels and the daughters of men."

So the translation here is obvious: your gawd's aim ain't worth shit.

Proven further by this little gem:

"13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight."

Anak being a descendant of the Nephilim. So what did these giants do? Tread water for forty days? Hang onto the Ark? Let's not forget these critters need to eat, right? Were they hanging around when the waters subsided, and chewed up a few dinosaurs that disem-arked?

So he links to a Mt. Blanco creationist museum (as an aside, it looks like a cross between the Enquirer and a carnival rest stop: the website looks as if if was designed by 'specially gifted' 4th graders), with this ridiculous story about a 'giant human femur'. It's sculpted on an alleged find in Turkey (odd, but no photo!). Edward Babinski says this about that:

"But the Mt. Blanco webpage admits that the "femur" pictured on their site is not a genuine femur, but just a sculpture that the owner of the museum molded in order to illustrate an unsubstantiated story. The story came from a letter published apparently in an unnamed Christian publication by an unnamed Christian, neither does the original story even mention "femurs," not once!" Read the whole entry.

He also links to an absurd story about how Egyptians dwelt and built inside the Grand Canyon.

I could go on and on, just from exploring this link alone (some of which are old, and others are broken).

Most of the...evidence he submits is unaccompanied by any photos: there's a link in there somewhere that shows abnormal skulls - but history shows that Incans, Burgundians and Huns used to form their infants skulls for that 'conehead' look; and a few abnormally developed skulls are hardly a recipe for anything except a half-baked hypothesis. There's a few interesting blurbs from reputable sources, but just about nil on the follow-up: fact-checking, in my humble opinion, is taking three reputable sources and cross-checking. Got a wild theory? Get some empirical evidence - photos, multiple eyewitness accounts (reputable ones - most of us veer away from the ones provided where the witness begins spewing up about their personal experiences with 'demons', 'angels', and whatnot), and people with actual credentials in their field. I'd be more likely to listen to Leaky than Gilroy, by a wide margin, for instance. Oh, wait - he's probably IN on the whole conspiracy (boohoohaha!).

His actual excuse - pardon me, rationale - is that all this 'proof' simply vanished. The theory? You guessed it: them nasty ole scientists have been absconding with the 'evidence'. What, don't any of these people take photos? I'm talking about the 16 to 25 foot skeletons. Hell, any of these finds.

Well, at least he's not a Young Earth creationist. That's something, I suppose.

[special note: while I copped the accompanying photo from his site, he states that it is FAKE. It is however, a testament to how easily photographic evidence can be cobbled up.]

Final analysis: you have GOT to be joking.

Sadly, he's not. The site also promotes a book he's written.

Thirty years is a sad, sad waste of a life. Especially chasing the lies and ridiculous folderol of that thing people call the bible. Sorry, Steve-O: it was a waste of time.

For the record, the author requires written permission to use any and all materials. I have, however, not plagiarized one iota, nor quoted anything out of context. If I have, I will be happy to amend this.

Till the next post, then.

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karen said...

Glad you told us that pic was faked.
I was gonna go hide in my storm cellar in case them thar angels was still copulating with wimmen to make giants.

Except, I don't have a storm cellar.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Hey doll - yeah, that's kinda what's known as a teaser. ;)

beepbeepitsme said...

Of course there were giants in the bible. Gigantic half truths.

The NT just seems to me to be an amalgam of ideas to present to the common man, the concepts of Plato and Aristotle.

Christianity, and hence the jesus figure, seem to be the personification of the concepts of these philosophical positions.

Krystalline Apostate said...

BBIM - hmmm, thought the bible predated Plato & Ari.
I've emailed the fellow - which, if he shows, will no doubt regale us w/theories based not only on the book of fables, but also that there are tales of giants from other cultures.
You know, all the standard folderol.

beepbeepitsme said...


I was thinking about the New Testament. The writings of the jews and the oldest copies we have as evidence, predate Plato etc, but the NT is a different kettle of fish.

I have some ideas about Greek Philosophy and it's impact upon the formulation of the NEW Testament, specifically the gospels, that I haven't nutted out completely yet. But I am thinking about it and working on it.

The oldest copies of the gospels, in evidence date from around 300CE. Prior to that there are fragments of this and that, not much evidence of anything in an entirety.

Plato (427-347 BCE) and Aristotle (384 – 322 BCE) were having an effect on modern philosophy and consequently religion from about 400BCE.

Personally, I blame Plato with his concept of dualism.

"Plato, like Descartes, saw the mind as identical with the soul. However, unlike Descartes, Plato argued that the soul both pre-existed and survived the body, going through a continual process of reincarnation or "transmigration".

Basically, I think that the works and philosophies of these 2 major Greek Philosophers heavily influenced what would be considered relevant for the creation of a new religion whose basis is the account of the gospels.

beepbeepitsme said...

Platonic Dualism

Krystalline Apostate said...

I have some ideas about Greek Philosophy and it's impact upon the formulation of the NEW Testament, specifically the gospels, that I haven't nutted out completely yet.
Well, it's all about allegory. That's why debates w/certain religious folks gets to the level of pulling one's hair out. They think we're blind to it.
I thought Pythagoras was the 1st on transmigration?

Zac Hunter said...

I suspect Paul, who I hold primarily responsible for all the contemporary Christian clap-trap crap we are dealing with, was possibly a Platonist. Besides, Cilicia and Athens weren't too far apart, especially after a three or four hundred year span.

I know I have a great essay somewhere in hard copy at home that mentions the possibility of this. In fact, if I find it, I will definitely mail it to you KA. I think it is the kind of thing you would get a kick out of. I can't even remember the author right now. Not completely improbable. The medieval scholastics certainly had a hard-on for Plato.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Hey Zac - I wouldn't doubt that Paul was a Platonist, maybe even a Neo.
That essay sounds cool. Definitely interested.
You're in S.F, right? Maybe we could bump shoulders, or shoot down a brew (though I don't drink - much, that is).