left biblioblography: Pity The Poor Palestinians...Why, Exactly?

Sunday, November 25, 2007

Pity The Poor Palestinians...Why, Exactly?

kids&parentscartoon

Cross posted at God's For Suckers!

Time to stir the hornet's nest, it seems.

One of the items that set my teeth on edge, is this humongous blind spot leftist atheists have in regards the Palestinians.

I know, I know - I've gone on at length about this topic. Follow the link, please...while people do learn from repetition, there's only so many times I can parrot the actual facts before I'm ready to put a fist through a wall in frustration.

And this - well, I confess I start seeing red when I hear/read this egregious horseshit:

Commodifying Honor in Female Sexuality: Honor Killings in Palestine

The family constitutes the fundamental building-block of Palestinian society. Family status is largely dependent upon its honor, much of which is determined by the respectability of its daughters, who can damage it irreparably by the perceived misuse of their sexuality

Every year, hundreds of women and girls are murdered in the Middle East by male family members. The honor killing-the execution of a female family member for perceived misuse of her sexuality-is a thorny social and political issue. Palestinian activists campaigning for equality find it difficult to stop the killings altogether. Legitimacy for such murders stems from a complex code of honor ingrained in the consciousness of some sectors of Palestinian society.

'Thorny issue' my homesick ass. Yeah, a real progressive society, I daresay. (To give credit where it's due, there are Pali's who are actively working to change this.)

Does this stem from any religious proclivities? Apparently so:

The Kurds of Turkey and Iraq who practice honor killings are not Arabs, nor are the predominantly Pashtun peoples of Afghanistan who engage in the practice. If honor-killing is a survival of an Arab, pre-Islamic custom, then it has been exported to Kurdish peoples and those in Afghanistan and the Indian sub-continent, a "fellow-traveler" during the early (pre-Ottoman) historical spread of Islam. Therefore, I do not buy into the argument that honor-killings have nothing to do with Islam. They are a living part of its history. Adultery, according to Sharia principles, is punishable by death, and most honor-killings involve suspected adultery. Apostasy is also, according to some Islamic schools of thought, punishable by death.

Of course, nothing is quite monochromatic, as this link shows there are varying degrees of Sharia law in different countries.

Honor killings are a barbaric, archaic holdover from earlier traditions. Note also, that the Palestinian Authority still doesn't prosecute, as this is a holdover from when the Jordanians ruled the Gaza Strip, the last vestige of which was in 1988, via a law that is nearly 50 years old.

Back to this link:

In 2005 in Israel there were 15 recorded honor killings, with three of these taking place in the municipality of Ramle. Palestinians have engaged in savage honor killings, and with the rise of the Islamist group Hamas, there may be a rise in such murders. In April 2005, a young woman was killed for the "crime" of being with her fiancé in the Gaza 3 strip. Her killers were said to be Hamas' morality police, the Anti-Corruption Unit. Twenty-two year old Yusra al-Azzami was in a car with her fiancé, and was shot from a vehicle which contained five masked men. After Yusra was shot, her dead body was dragged from the car and beaten with iron bars. Later, the fiancé and (her) sister were also beaten.
In the Palestinian territories, there has been an increase in honor killings. Last month a 40-page report was compiled by Ohaila Shomar of women's rights group SAWA. Until 2004, there were 10 to 12 murders of women each year in Palestinian territories. Over the past three years, there have been 48 murders of females aged from 12 to 85 years old. Of these cases, 32 have been honor killings. The Times states that last year, 17 Palestinian women were honor victims. 12 were killed in the Gaza Strip and 5 were killed in the West Bank.

For more gut-wrenching facts:

The reasoning behind honor killings is alien to the Western mind. Though not recent, the case of Amira Abu Hanhan Qaoud, a mother of nine who killed her teenaged daughter Rofayda on January 27, 2002 shows a callousness that shocks. Rofayda had been raped by her two elder brothers in their shared bedroom in their Ramallah home.
She became pregnant
. On December 23, 2002, Rofayda gave birth to a baby boy at a women's shelter in Bethlehem. She returned to the family's three bedroom home in the suburb of Abu Qash. The family and village heads signed a promise that they would not harm the teenager. The two brothers were jailed.
Amira Qaoud did not keep her promise. She bought razor blades, and ordered her daughter to slash her own wrists. When Rofayda refused, her mother smothered her with a plastic bag, slashed the girl's wrists and hit her with a wooden stick. The killing took twenty minutes. Amira Qaoud said: "She killed me before I killed her. I had to protect my children. This is the only way I could protect my family's honor." Her nine year old daughter Fatima echoed her sentiments, saying: "My mother did this because she does not want us to be punished by people. I love my mother much more now than before."
In Palestinian territories, a murder is regarded as less serious if it is an honor killing, and thus honor killers receive from six to twelve months' jail. This stems from Jordanian legislation from 1960. Article 340 of the Jordanian Penal Code affirms that "he who discovers his wife or one of his female relatives committing adultery with another, and he kills, wounds or injures one or both of them, is exempt from any penalty...he who discovers his wife, or one of his female ascendants or descendants or sisters with another in an unlawful bed and he kills, wounds or injures one or both of them, benefits from a reduction of penalty." In addition to this, Article 98 of the Penal Code allows a educed sentence if a perpetrator kills in a "fit of fury".

Even though the FSM (geez, I long for the days when the only acronyms we knew were NFL and NBA, but oh well) is a fairly heavy Christian apologetics site, this doesn't negate the facts. Here's yet another report from the BBC:

She was last seen at half past two on a Saturday afternoon looking down from a window in her family's apartment.

They live on a main road, in a building that houses an ice-cream shop. Outside a religious procession was making its way through the streets.

Someone walking in that procession, who knew her face and her troubles, glanced up and saw her.

Less than two hours later, she was dead - her skull crushed - reportedly by blows from an iron bar.

Her name was Faten. She was 22-years-old, a Palestinian Christian from the West Bank city of Ramallah.

After her lifeless body was found, her father and an aunt were taken into custody.

So let's take inventory:

We have a group here (mostly Arab Muslims, not restricted to Palestine) that

A. treats women like property (read: shit), and
B. teaches their children to not only hate the 'invaders', but also that it's good to fucking blow them up.

And 'fess up, folks: if this were any other religious group, the bunch of Pali apologists among you would be hollering, nay, bellowing your lungs out, for something resembling justice, wouldn't you? Demanding fist-in-palm that some sort of reforms be set in place, some form of gob-damned education be instituted, some mechanisms be put in place to halt this hideous activity?

Do please, spare me all the old vacuous homilies: the 'this is all Israel's fault!' folderol, the Palis are responding to invaders of their home turf (who had it first, anyways? What's the statute of limitations on that sorta thing?), the long-winded arguments over land ownership (I, for one, don't buy the 'empty land' argument of the Zionists), or the romantic painting of Palestinians' plight as underdogs.

It's a paintbrush dipped in blood, for one.

Oh, and do please spare me the rubbish that I'm intimating that Israel's above reproach, because it's not. Just about every government on earth is in need (dire or otherwise) of serious reform. There are varying degrees of lunacy to be found in any ruling body: take as your yardstick, the current events of the situation, measure, and cut accordingly.

So, in a nutshell: I'm going to withhold any sympathy, until these loons actually get their shit together, stop begging Allah (peanut butter and jelly be upon him) for an intercession that'll never come, and actually alter their approach (because let's face facts, folks: it's going onwards of about 60 years of butting heads against brick walls, and there's a lotta spilled brain matter, and little in the way of erosion of said wall) that somewhat resembles something other than an Iron age anachronistic behavior pattern.

Choose the lesser of two evils, I always say: choose wisely.

This is the Apostate, signing off.

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25 comments:

niran said...

Ah the irony of Americans trying to solve the worlds problems in their heads when all they ever do is fuck things up wherever they go. How about writing about forcing your government to stop funding the Israeli military and worry yourself about getting your government to give reparations to the descendants of the Indians who your forefathers exterminated and the Blacks, who they enslaved. Let the Palestinians sort their own problems out. Palestinians don't need your sympathy. They just need your country to stop interfering with them and get the fuck out of the Middle East.

Oh, and can you please vote for a candidate who will want your CIA and all those motherfucking yank soldiers to get the fuck out of Afghanistan and Pakistan. You guys are funding a tyrant in Pakistan and he in turn is funding the illegitimate government over here in Sri Lanka. Causing some trouble,

God bless you.

niran said...

White kid - My mother wants me to grow up to screw the lives of the Hispanics, Blacks and Arabs and profit off their misery while bombing their homes to steal their oil.

Stardust said...

They just need your country to stop interfering with them and get the fuck out of the Middle East.


That would solve absolutely nothing. They won't be satisified because we who live in western nations are infidels...and it won't stop with just giving them their magical land back.

You have nothing to say about the honor killings of women? I am appalled how this simply gets blown off repeatedly. How about the hanging of homosexuals, about teaching their kids to suicide themselves while killing innocent victims along with themselves and all the other religious fucktardery?

The anti-Israel leftists continually overlook the atrocities, bringing up past atrocities that Americans and Israelis have done in the past as if that somehow justifies the human rights violations that are happening in TODAY's world.

I just don't understand westerners who support barbarism and dark-age mentality...while ironically living comfortably in an "evil" western society.

niran said...

"They won't be satisified because we who live in western nations are infidels...and it won't stop with just giving them their magical land back."

That's G. W. Bush garbage. They hate you because you're over there meddling in their business. Listen to Ron Paul. You don't see them wanting to go after the Indians or the Chinese do you, even though the Hindus and the godless Chinese are considered 'infidels'. Wake up and smell the coffee and understand why America is hated all over the world.


"You have nothing to say about the honor killings of women? I am appalled how this simply gets blown off repeatedly. How about the hanging of homosexuals, about teaching their kids to suicide themselves while killing innocent victims along with themselves and all the other religious fucktardery?"

I Have a lot to say about suicide bombings, hanging of homos, honour killings etc. (I myself have had family members injured by a suicide bombing in my country) I also have a hell of a lot to say about imperial expansion, the theft of Middle Eastern oil, illegal occupation, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, the Blackwater massacres, the carpet bombing of Fallujah etc. I believe the world will be a better place if America stays out of the way of other people's business and stops pontificating on other people's wrongs when they themselves continue to benefit of the fruits of slavery, genocide and the nuking of other countries. The critique of honor killings sounds a little shallow when US led sanctions killed 250,000 Iraqi women and girls recently(500,000 civilians in all according to the UN) and you don't say a word about it.

"The anti-Israel leftists continually overlook the atrocities, bringing up past atrocities that Americans and Israelis have done in the past as if that somehow justifies the human rights violations that are happening in TODAY's world."

The state of Israel was set up under the jack boot of the Western powers. I think that the Arabs and Jews who lived together for thousands of years in highly civilized communities at a time when Caucasians were daubing their faces blue and running around the forest naked in pursuit of wild boar, could sort their own problems out without America interfering in their business and picking sides.

God bless you,

P.S - I know this may sound offensive to some Americans because you're never told this by your corporate media barons. I recommend a good dose of Noam Chomsky for those of you who think America is hated for its values, and not for its fucked up interference in the affairs of other countries.

Krystalline Apostate said...

niran - wow, you sure came outta hiding quick.
How about writing about forcing your government to stop funding the Israeli military
I won't do that: I support Israel, as it happens to be the closest thing in the ME to a liberal democracy.
and worry yourself about getting your government to give reparations to the descendants of the Indians who your forefathers exterminated and the Blacks, who they enslaved.
I've actually used those points b4, myself. How many of us yanks would accede our property to a Native American if they came by to reclaim it? Zero's my guess.
Let the Palestinians sort their own problems out. Palestinians don't need your sympathy.
Ah...dude, re-read the post. I have no sympathy. They're on their own, till they clean house.
They just need your country to stop interfering with them and get the fuck out of the Middle East.
I actually agree w/that.
The critique of honor killings sounds a little shallow when US led sanctions killed 250,000 Iraqi women and girls recently(500,000 civilians in all according to the UN) and you don't say a word about it.
Actually, I spoke up about well in advance - read this. I've railed against that prick on numerous occasions, and advised folks on how to vote.
But your paragraph insinuates that it's a matter of numbers, when it isn't.
I'm sorry some of your relatives got caught in that suicide bomber's collateral damage.

I agree w/Stardust, however: it's gone way, WAY past 'leave 'em alone, they'll leave us alone too.'

Krystalline Apostate said...

Oh, hey:
The state of Israel was set up under the jack boot of the Western powers. I think that the Arabs and Jews who lived together for thousands of years in highly civilized communities at a time when Caucasians were daubing their faces blue and running around the forest naked in pursuit of wild boar, could sort their own problems out without America interfering in their business and picking sides.
Where then, pray tell, would you have situated the large migrations of Jews? Who would have handled that, elsewise?
It was the culmination of centuries of mistreatment at the hands of the Western world.
Israel's their ancestral lands. Where would YOU have put them?

Krystalline Apostate said...

By 'prick', I mean the Commander-in-thief - definitely the worst president we've ever had.
Sanctimonious, braindead, fundie idiot. Adjectives fail me: I could go on for hours as to why W should be fired/impeached/run outta town on a rail.

niran said...

KA: When you say you support Israel, I hope you don't mean you want your government to keep giving billions of dollars in arms aid to the Israeli government. Because that's what you guys are doing right now and that constitutes interference with the fate of the Palestinians. Support Israel all you want, but don't pump arms into a war that is essentially between peoples who have lived together from long before the Europeans discovered fire...know what I'm saying...You agree that the US needs to stop interfering, so fly the flag of Israeli liberal democracy(that is in continuing violation of a mountain of SC Resolutions and ICJ judgments) out of your window without supporting the IDF. That's cool.

Btw, as long as the US keeps propping up dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt, liberal democracies' chances in the ME are not very high. Also destabilizing countries by invading them and wanting to go after other countries as well really doesn't bode well for democracy.

"Ah...dude, re-read the post. I have no sympathy. They're on their own, till they clean house."

Yes, I did read it. They don't need and are not asking for your sympathy. They want you to stop interfering by giving Israel the deadly arms with which they are attacked. Kapiche??

"Actually, I spoke up about well in advance - read this. I've railed against that prick on numerous occasions, and advised folks on how to vote."

Reread my comments. I was talking about the pre war sanctions that Clinton pushed for. I hadn't even got to Bush's fucked up war.

"I agree w/Stardust, however: it's gone way, WAY past 'leave 'em alone, they'll leave us alone too."

I heard Ann Coulter say that too. Ever wonder why the Middle Eastern Muslims don't want to attack China or India? Don't be silly. You already agree you need to stop interfering, now get your dollars and your arms and get the fuck out of there without trying to provoke a third world war. Like I always say, No justice = No peace.

niran said...

"It was the culmination of centuries of mistreatment at the hands of the Western world."

So why not create an Israel in the middle of Europe. Take away some land in Europe, because they're the ones who mistreated them right, and let the Jews live there. Or get them back to their original lands and let them lives as equals. The Palestinians are now stateless and have had their lands taken away by the Israelis in wars after the creation of Israel. Anyone with a passing understanding of the Palestinian issue knows that a two-state solution is the only real solution to the problem. Israel doesn't want that and won't talk to the democratic representatives of the Palestinians. I hope you read more on this without repeating some Zionist horse shit.

"Israel's their ancestral lands. Where would YOU have put them?"

Anywhere where they want to lives as equals and where they agree not to steal their neighbors' lands.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Niran:
When you say you support Israel, I hope you don't mean you want your government to keep giving billions of dollars in arms aid to the Israeli government.
W/Iran threatening to go nuclear, & their intention to push Israel out into the sea? Hell, no. Israel’ll whomp them anyways.
Because that's what you guys are doing right now and that constitutes interference with the fate of the Palestinians.
I’m kinda all for letting the bunch of them settling it amongst themselves.
Support Israel all you want, but don't pump arms into a war that is essentially between peoples who have lived together from long before the Europeans discovered fire
Ummm…technically incorrect, since Greek culture advanced prior to either Arab or Jewish culture. But I catch your drift.
You agree that the US needs to stop interfering, so fly the flag of Israeli liberal democracy(that is in continuing violation of a mountain of SC Resolutions and ICJ judgments) out of your window without supporting the IDF. That's cool.
I hardly call it a ‘mountain’.
Btw, as long as the US keeps propping up dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt, liberal democracies' chances in the ME are not very high. Also destabilizing countries by invading them and wanting to go after other countries as well really doesn't bode well for democracy.
Wow – took the words right outta my mouth, no less. 1st time you’ve EVER done that.
Yes, I did read it. They don't need and are not asking for your sympathy. They want you to stop interfering by giving Israel the deadly arms with which they are attacked. Kapiche??
The post is actually railing against how blind the Left can be. How they seem to latch onto the Pali cause w/o weighing the ramifications of that allegiance. & how ass-backwards the Pali’s REALLY are.
I heard Ann Coulter say that too.
I guess even a crazy bitch can be right occasionally.
Ever wonder why the Middle Eastern Muslims don't want to attack China or India? Don't be silly. You already agree you need to stop interfering, now get your dollars and your arms and get the fuck out of there without trying to provoke a third world war. Like I always say, No justice = No peace.
Still too late. We hightail it outta there, sign of weakness. They eradicate Israel entirely. Then in a peaked frenzy, they start finishing what the Saracens started centuries ago.
Don’t tell me that’s crazy. I saw the rabid ‘patriotic’ garbage that happened post 9/11. ‘We have to do SOMETHING’. So my country invaded Afghanistan on the slimmest of pretexts. Followed (somewhat closely) by the Iraqi debacle.
Human nature is what it is. A simple coup won’t placate the centuries of perceived abuse (real or otherwise). Those folks have long, LONG memories.

niran said...

"W/Iran threatening to go nuclear, & their intention to push Israel out into the sea? Hell, no. Israel’ll whomp them anyways."

I thought this post was about the Arab Palestinians. Now its about Shiite Iran??? Typical American, lump all the middle Easterners into one and hate them all. Btw, care to post a link with a direct quote of Ahmadinejad threatening to wipe Israel off the map. Please link a direct quote and not some fox news interpretation of what he said. Don't believe everything your government and news barons tell you. A'nejad never threatened to push Israel into the sea or anything of the sort. He was talking about regime change in Israel.

Yes, Israel can do anything it want include launch a devastating war on Lebanon whenever it wants and whomp anyone in the ME with East. Your tax dollars have armed them to the teeth and they feel they can do anything now. No one is going to try and destroy Israel. Israel has submarine nuclear attack capabilities that enable it to destroy any country in the ME even if it's been nuked. Now, go and do your reading on Mutually Assured Destruction.

"I’m kinda all for letting the bunch of them settling it amongst themselves."

Cool. We're on the same page. Get the fuck out of there and take your filthy US money out of the ME. I'm glad you agree.

"Ummm…technically incorrect, since Greek culture advanced prior to either Arab or Jewish culture. But I catch your drift."

What cock. Is that what racist Bill O reilly told you on fox? The Sumerian, Elamite, Canaanite and ancient Egyptian civilizations all predate Greek civilisation by a fair bit.

"The post is actually railing against how blind the Left can be. How they seem to latch onto the Pali cause w/o weighing the ramifications of that allegiance. & how ass-backwards the Pali’s REALLY are."

And I'm railing on about how ass-backwards Americans are.

"We hightail it outta there, sign of weakness. They eradicate Israel entirely. Then in a peaked frenzy, they start finishing what the Saracens started centuries ago."

No point, Any excuse for staying there and stealing other people's oil. You agree that you shouldn't interfere, yet here you suggest you need to keep supporting Israel.

The empire is crumbling slowly but surely and the world is watching with excitement. You're going to have to hightail it out of Iraq in humiliation for sure. You think that's going to make the Iraqi resistance want to attack the US in the US? Maybe, maybe not, but getting out of there will be the first move to getting it right.

Krystalline Apostate said...

niran:
I thought this post was about the Arab Palestinians. Now its about Shiite Iran??? Typical American, lump all the middle Easterners into one and hate them all.
Oh, you’re fucking kidding me, right? I keep forgetting how you like to change directions & accuse your opponent of doing it. We were talking about Israel. It’s hard to subtract the surrounding landscape from the equation, is it not?
Btw, care to post a link with a direct quote of Ahmadinejad threatening to wipe Israel off the map. Please link a direct quote and not some fox news interpretation of what he said. Don't believe everything your government and news barons tell you. A'nejad never threatened to push Israel into the sea or anything of the sort. He was talking about regime change in Israel.
Here's a good start. I’ve heard all that crap about, “Oh, that’s not what he REALLY said!” Fox is YOUR news channel, it appears: I don’t watch that shit.
Yes, Israel can do anything it want include launch a devastating war on Lebanon whenever it wants and whomp anyone in the ME with East. Your tax dollars have armed them to the teeth and they feel they can do anything now. No one is going to try and destroy Israel. Israel has submarine nuclear attack capabilities that enable it to destroy any country in the ME even if it's been nuked. Now, go and do your reading on Mutually Assured Destruction.
Any recommendations? I’m not to happy about funding it, but crying, spilled milk, etc.
Cool. We're on the same page. Get the fuck out of there and take your filthy US money out of the ME. I'm glad you agree.
Real bug up your ass, isn’t there?
What cock. Is that what racist Bill O reilly told you on fox?
I don’t know where you get your info, but I (as well as many other people) detest Faux noise, & Bill O’Lielly is on my list as a piece of shit.
But then, you’re just trying to goad me, aintcha?
The Sumerian, Elamite, Canaanite and ancient Egyptian civilizations all predate Greek civilisation by a fair bit.
Here's a breakdown of the definition of the word ‘Arab’. I said Jewish/Arab civilization: those are all people of Semitic blood.
“The derivation of the term Arab is unclear, and the meaning of the word has changed several times through history. Some Arab scholars have equated Joktan (Gen. 10.25) with the ancient Arab patriarch Qahtan whose tribe is thought to have originated in S Arabia. The Assyrian inscriptions (9th cent. B.C.) referred to nomadic peoples inhabiting the far north of the Arabian Peninsula; the sedentary population in the south of the peninsula was not called Arab. In classical times the term was extended to the whole of the Arabian Peninsula and to all the desert areas of the Middle East, and in the Middle Ages the Arabs came to be called Saracens.”
But I’ll let that go for now.
And I'm railing on about how ass-backwards Americans are.
I find it baffling: you obviously loathe the white man (especially Americans) – yet you’ve adopted the language, and yes, even the white man’s religion.
No point, Any excuse for staying there and stealing other people's oil. You agree that you shouldn't interfere, yet here you suggest you need to keep supporting Israel.
More bafflement still: I support Israel for secular reasons, but that whole region’s intricately woven into your entire epistemology, isn’t it? All those ½ assed prophecies (none of which came true), your whole belief system, are reliant on Israel. Revelation, Daniel, all that hogwash. So, what’s your rationale? (This should be fun!) Lemmee guess: “This didn’t go the way I was told, so let’s re-explain it someway so IT DOES MAKE SENSE! Yippee, praise Jay-suss!”)
You religious folks are just such a writhing mass of contradictions, ya know?
The empire is crumbling slowly but surely and the world is watching with excitement. You're going to have to hightail it out of Iraq in humiliation for sure. You think that's going to make the Iraqi resistance want to attack the US in the US? Maybe, maybe not, but getting out of there will be the first move to getting it right.
You may as well gloat – you’re pretty much hollering after all the dust has settled. Again, I was against it – I called the WH (special line) & told them so. That dipshit up there doesn’t need to listen to his people – he never has. Stole 2 elections, & Iraq was just a re-election scam, as I’ve said before.
Yeah, America’s sure gumbied up the works – has been doing so, for decades.

niran said...

".........According to Juan Cole, a University of Michigan Professor of Modern Middle East and South Asian History, Ahmadinejad's statement should be translated as:The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e eshghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad)....)

Sounds like he's talking about regime change. This is off your link. Thanks for the support :-)

If you read what you inked here, it's clear there's some ambiguity about the meaning of his statement. But Iran, which is controlled by the clerics have always said they are in favor of a referendum to determine the leadership of the Israelis and the Palestinians. No talk of genocide there.

"Any recommendations? I’m not to happy about funding it, but crying, spilled milk, etc."

I've given you my recommendations and you seem to agree.

"I find it baffling: you obviously loathe the white man (especially Americans) – yet you’ve adopted the language, and yes, even the white man’s religion."

I've noting against the white man just like you have nothing against Arabs in general right? I haven't adopted the white man's language. Its only one of the many languages I've learned. It's a tool, helps you communicate. What's your point? You must be a complete fuckup if you think Christianity is a white man's religion. It's a Middle Eastern religion if you want to pin it down to an area. Christianity was brought to the area of India where I'm descended from a long time before the colonists arrived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_Orthodox_Church#Church_in_India

"More bafflement still: I support Israel for secular reasons, but that whole region’s intricately woven into your entire epistemology, isn’t it? All those ½ assed prophecies (none of which came true), your whole belief system, are reliant on Israel. Revelation, Daniel, all that hogwash. So, what’s your rationale? (This should be fun!) Lemmee guess: “This didn’t go the way I was told, so let’s re-explain it someway so IT DOES MAKE SENSE! Yippee, praise Jay-suss!”)
You religious folks are just such a writhing mass of contradictions, ya know?"

Wrong number fucktard. I'm making a secular argument too. The world will be a better and safer place if the USA kept themselves out of the business of other folks. This Jerry Falwell rubbish is a niggling crab up your arse isn't it/ Not my fucking problem.

"You may as well gloat – you’re pretty much hollering after all the dust has settled."

Aren't you happy that America is weaker now and is not able to do the same shit it did at the beginning of the war. Call it gloating if you like. It's just a value judgment. India and China have shown themselves to be much more responsible global leaders and it's a good thing they're emerging as superpowers.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Sounds like he's talking about regime change. This is off your link. Thanks for the support :-)
It ALSO reads:
“Ahmadinejad also claimed in the speech that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."
I've given you my recommendations and you seem to agree.
I meant on MAD.
I've noting against the white man just like you have nothing against Arabs in general right?
The race card…again. Sigh. No, I don’t.
I haven't adopted the white man's language. Its only one of the many languages I've learned. It's a tool, helps you communicate. What's your point? You must be a complete fuckup if you think Christianity is a white man's religion. It's a Middle Eastern religion if you want to pin it down to an area.
Hehehehe. Knew that’d get a rise outta ya. Of course, you realize that Western European thought is a big influence on you?
Wrong number fucktard. I'm making a secular argument too. The world will be a better and safer place if the USA kept themselves out of the business of other folks. This Jerry Falwell rubbish is a niggling crab up your arse isn't it/ Not my fucking problem.
Hehehehe. So you’re anti-USA, but pro-Israel? You think your invisible sky-daddy’s going to pop in, & level the playing field? Why hasn’t s/he/it done so already?
Aren't you happy that America is weaker now and is not able to do the same shit it did at the beginning of the war. Call it gloating if you like. It's just a value judgment. India and China have shown themselves to be much more responsible global leaders and it's a good thing they're emerging as superpowers.
Really? China’s got a horrible human rights record, & India’s been right on the verge of nuking Pakistan for some time now. NTM that the latter’s been prone to religious violence for decades.
Of course, for you, anything’s better than the white man, & ANYTHING’S better than the USA.
‘Better the devil you know’, as they say in your circles, isn’t it?
No worries. That butplug in the big house will be bankrupting this country soon enough. So it’s a moot point.

niran said...

“Ahmadinejad also claimed in the speech that the issue with Palestine would be over "the day that all refugees return to their homes [and] a democratic government elected by the people comes to power",[3] and denounced attempts to normalise relations with Israel, condemning all Muslim leaders who accept the existence of Israel as "acknowledging a surrender and defeat of the Islamic world."

Yes, I think he is saying that until there is democracy and the Palestinians given a right to vote, the Israeli regime is illegitimate. What's the issue?

"I meant on MAD."

Stay out of the ME, Iran gets the bomb. So does Libya, Syria and a future Palestine. MAD all the way. Sounds good to me.

"Of course, you realize that Western European thought is a big influence on you?"

Of course. I have imbibed the intellectual traditions of many cultures. For a whitey who's into tai-chi, I would think you know better than to peddle this ridiculous idea that thought can be homogeneous. Hahaha...

"So you’re anti-USA, but pro-Israel?"

WTF?? What does pro-this and pro-that mean. Try to have opinions that are slightly more sophisticated than being explicable by the simple prefix of a monosyllabic word in front of the object. Silly fucker, haha

"Really? China’s got a horrible human rights record, & India’s been right on the verge of nuking Pakistan for some time now."

Yes, there's been some suppression of democracy in China, But no unnecessary military intervention, no nuclear bombing, no genocide, and no history of mass slavery through human trafficking in the last few hundred years. Much better record than the US.

As for India, only threatening a nuke and not actually using it makes them so much more responsible than the US. Besides, who told you these stories about India and Pakistan wanting to nuke each other. They're both nuclear armed, MAD works and they're well on their way to having a lasting peace.

Sorry dude, time's up on the yanks. Cede honorably or risk perpetual war grinding you into the dust while the Hispanics take over your country. It's not yours to begin with so not like that's a bad thing. The choice is yours.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Yes, I think he is saying that until there is democracy and the Palestinians given a right to vote, the Israeli regime is illegitimate. What's the issue?
I’d suggest you dig just a little deeper into the context.
Stay out of the ME, Iran gets the bomb. So does Libya, Syria and a future Palestine. MAD all the way. Sounds good to me.
I think 1 bomb is 1 too many.
Of course. I have imbibed the intellectual traditions of many cultures. For a whitey who's into tai-chi, I would think you know better than to peddle this ridiculous idea that thought can be homogeneous. Hahaha...
Can’t get under your skin anymore? Oh well…
WTF?? What does pro-this and pro-that mean. Try to have opinions that are slightly more sophisticated than being explicable by the simple prefix of a monosyllabic word in front of the object. Silly fucker, haha
Do you recognize the right of Israel to exist? There, I’ve spelled it out for you.
Do try to not twist it outta true, like you usually do.
Yes, there's been some suppression of democracy in China, But no unnecessary military intervention, no nuclear bombing, no genocide, and no history of mass slavery through human trafficking in the last few hundred years. Much better record than the US.
Genocide in China.
Slave trafficking in China
As for India, only threatening a nuke and not actually using it makes them so much more responsible than the US. Besides, who told you these stories about India and Pakistan wanting to nuke each other. They're both nuclear armed, MAD works and they're well on their way to having a lasting peace.
Nuclear arms race
Indian genocide
More cases of Indian genocide
You seem ill-informed about your side of the ocean. I’d advise you get outta that bubble you live in some time soon.
Sorry dude, time's up on the yanks. Cede honorably or risk perpetual war grinding you into the dust while the Hispanics take over your country. It's not yours to begin with so not like that's a bad thing. The choice is yours.
Oh well…nothing’s eternal. & I mean that: NOTHING.

niran said...

"I think 1 bomb is 1 too many."

What a silly fucker you are, Of course nukes are bad, but the nuclear deterrent works when more than one of the actor countries are nuclear armed.

"Do you recognize the right of Israel to exist?"

Wow, you really are a silly fucker. Israel is a state. Every country that exists has a right to exist or it wouldn't exist at all. The Montevideo Convention deals with this sort of thing. Let's not dance on the end of this fine point of international law though. Do the Jews have a right to subjugate the Palestinians , steal their lands and bomb the Palestinians into submission? No.

It gets even better. Ok, here's the definition of genocide.
"The deliberate and systematic destruction of an entire people who belong to one racial, political, cultural or religious group."

Please tell me which racial, political, cultural or religious group Mao intended to destroy?

As for India- you post two links

1. A BBC link that talks about an arms race with Pakistan. Hey, I kind of knew that. mentioned it myself. An arms race does not mean "being on the verge" of nuking someone". But Fox really would be proud of the spin you put on that one...If the God bashing doesn't work out , you might want to think about a job in noise media you know...

2. You cite examples of abortion to say there's genocide. Man, like, wtf???

3. India actually helped the Bangladeshi's out by rescuing them from Pakistan, who were persecuting the Bangla's. You know, I think a google search can't make up facts and just because you type "india+genocide" doesn't mean that India has committed genocide. Yes, abortions they do have though :-) Now let's punish all abortionists of murder...hahaha...silly silly fucker.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Wow, you really are a silly fucker. Israel is a state. Every country that exists has a right to exist or it wouldn't exist at all. The Montevideo Convention deals with this sort of thing. Let's not dance on the end of this fine point of international law though. Do the Jews have a right to subjugate the Palestinians , steal their lands and bomb the Palestinians into submission? No.
I see you’ve learned 2 new words – ‘silly’ & ‘fucker’. Good for you. Define ‘steal their lands’. Can you prove that in a court, int’l or otherwise? I think you’re oversimplifying the situation…just a smidgeon. Are they being bombed into submission? No. You forget, it’s the Palistineans who are trying that, w/their own children. Nor are the Palistineans being enslaved, per se. Israel needs some reform, but you paint them as these vicious brutes who wandered in, & took everything in sight. Again, not that simple.
Please tell me which racial, political, cultural or religious group Mao intended to destroy?
You’re…kidding, right? Cultural Revolution ring a bell? Millions died?
As for India- you post two links
Hey, if you’re aborting fetuses based on gender, then it’s pretty fucked up. Stupid, too. China does this shit as well.
Examples to show that the Indian gov’t isn’t quite as vunderbar as you make them out to be.
Here's one more.
And here's another
Topping it off w/yet more.
“Couple hundred years” my homesick ass.
When it comes down to track record, the USA’s not doing so good, but WAY better than either of those countries.
& if you can't face the reality of that, I feel sorry for you, you sad bastard.

niran said...

Just a few Security Council Resolutions Israel is in violation of:

Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

No need to prove in a Court of Law. SC Resolutions ARE binding instruments of international law.

Do your reading, silly fucker :-)

"No. You forget, it’s the Palistineans who are trying that, w/their own children. Nor are the Palistineans being enslaved, per se. Israel needs some reform, but you paint them as these vicious brutes who wandered in, & took everything in sight. Again, not that simple."

Of course it's complicated, but some of the atrocities are fairly easy to identify. I believe in a two state solution with sharing of Jerusalem and Israeli pull out from the West Bank. Do you?

"You’re…kidding, right? Cultural Revolution ring a bell? Millions died?"

How daft is it possible to be. Genocide means the targetted extermination of an identified group. Who did Mao try to exterminate? The Chinese?? Don't be a daft wanker... there, two other words I also learned..hahaha

"Hey, if you’re aborting fetuses based on gender, then it’s pretty fucked up. Stupid, too. China does this shit as well."

It may be fucked up, but it ain't genocide and the government is trying to prevent it. Clutching for straws aren't you.

It gets even worse when you mention the Gujarat bakery case, because that was a civilian riot where the Indian government intervened and punished the Hindus involved in the riot. Hardly genocide.

There's a huge difference between genocide and a hate crime. Genocide means the intended extermination of a race or group, i.e- the intended extermination of the Indians. Indians and Pakistanis fought wars but hardy tried to exterminate each other. Plus there's no indication in your "genocide+india=abortion" links that the Indian government is responsible for "genocidal abortions" (sounds nice no wanker, nice ring to it!!) and hate crimes by citizens, that it later went on to punish.

Plus, all these atrocities were committed within India and China whereas the US is much more dangerous because its terrorism is international. India and China are not angels but so far no "unnecessary military intervention, no nuclear bombing, no genocide, and no history of mass slavery through human trafficking in the last few hundred years."

I'm sorry to burst your bubble and what you've learned through your patriotic news channels, but US record really isn't pretty.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Just a few Security Council Resolutions Israel is in violation of:
…….No need to prove in a Court of Law. SC Resolutions ARE binding instruments of international law.

So, you fancy yourself a bit of a lawyer. Tell me: what good is a court deterrent, if the court is powerless? I notice the latest citation is what? 37 years old?
They probably all fall under Chapter VI.
Of course it's complicated, but some of the atrocities are fairly easy to identify. I believe in a two state solution with sharing of Jerusalem and Israeli pull out from the West Bank. Do you?
Actually, yes. You think the Palis will accede to 1?
How daft is it possible to be. Genocide means the targetted extermination of an identified group. Who did Mao try to exterminate? The Chinese?? Don't be a daft wanker... there, two other words I also learned..hahaha
Ummm…yes, AAMOF. So you’re splitting hairs? It’s not genocide if the millions are slaughtered by their own race? Are you smoking crack?
It may be fucked up, but it ain't genocide and the government is trying to prevent it. Clutching for straws aren't you.
Stay off the glass pipe, dude. Pleading nuance is…just mind-boggling. A spade’s a goddam shovel.
There's a huge difference between genocide and a hate crime. Genocide means the intended extermination of a race or group, i.e- the intended extermination of the Indians. Indians and Pakistanis fought wars but hardy tried to exterminate each other. Plus there's no indication in your "genocide+india=abortion" links that the Indian government is responsible for "genocidal abortions" (sounds nice no wanker, nice ring to it!!) and hate crimes by citizens, that it later went on to punish.
Hey, there’s plenty more of that shit. Seems your ‘utopian’ societies ain’t quite the charmers you paint them out to be. Pretty much on the same level as your hated enemy, the ole USA.
Plus, all these atrocities were committed within India and China whereas the US is much more dangerous because its terrorism is international. India and China are not angels but so far no "unnecessary military intervention, no nuclear bombing, no genocide, and no history of mass slavery through human trafficking in the last few hundred years."
This shit doesn’t have boundaries: nice try, no cigar. No, you lose. Finis.
I'm sorry to burst your bubble and what you've learned through your patriotic news channels, but US record really isn't pretty.
I’m getting more than a little fucking sick of this smarmy ‘you’re just brainwashed!’ crap. My OPINIONS are NOT dictated to me via TV. I don’t live in some fucking ORWELLIAN dream, fucktard. My POV is (more often than not) based on relevant facts & analysis, not some subliminal black ‘n white comic book horseshit, regardless of what you’ve heard about Americans.
No, it ain’t pretty. We should’ve just butted the fuck out. But as you may’ve gleaned, that dry drunk in D.C doesn’t listen to anyone. I for 1 would have him impeached for dishonesty, war crimes, the whole shebang.
I’d lend you a quarter to buy a clue, but you’d just go purchase some more of your substance of choice.
Now, sod off, & go pray to your zombie god.

niran said...

"So, you fancy yourself a bit of a lawyer. Tell me: what good is a court deterrent, if the court is powerless? I notice the latest citation is what? 37 years old?
They probably all fall under Chapter VI."

There's no deterrent. Therefore Israel gets away scot free. Your point? Yes, they are under the pacific settlement chapter. Oh, by the way, there's the recent ICJ judgment on the illegality of the wall that Israel continues to build.


"Actually, yes. You think the Palis will accede to 1?"

They're demanding it fucktard.

"Ummm…yes, AAMOF. So you’re splitting hairs? It’s not genocide if the millions are slaughtered by their own race? Are you smoking crack?"

Look, I don;t know what the fuck you've been on, blind American red necked patriotism probably, but genocide is genocide only if there's an intention to eliminate a identified group. Random killings even in the millions would be crimes against humanity. International law recognizes something additionally repulsive about wanting to exterminate an entire race. ie- the attempted extermination of the Indians by the whiteys in America.

"Stay off the glass pipe, dude. Pleading nuance is…just mind-boggling. A spade’s a goddam shovel."

But abortion is not goddam genocide. Kapiche??

"Hey, there’s plenty more of that shit. Seems your ‘utopian’ societies ain’t quite the charmers you paint them out to be. Pretty much on the same level as your hated enemy, the ole USA."

Nothing utopian dude. China and India are as fucked up as a lot of other countries. America though is especially fucked up way beyond China and India.

"This shit doesn’t have boundaries:
"

International peace is better preserved when you respect the boundaries between states. China and India do respect those boundaries, dirty Uncle Sam does not.

"I’m getting more than a little fucking sick of this smarmy ‘you’re just brainwashed!’ crap. My OPINIONS are NOT dictated to me via TV. I don’t live in some fucking ORWELLIAN dream, fucktard. My POV is (more often than not) based on relevant facts & analysis, not some subliminal black ‘n white comic book horseshit, regardless of what you’ve heard about Americans."

Ooh...someone's a little pissed off/ hahaha

"We should’ve just butted the fuck out. But as you may’ve gleaned, that dry drunk in D.C doesn’t listen to anyone. I for 1 would have him impeached for dishonesty, war crimes, the whole shebang."

This goes a long way back before Bush. USA oversaw and funded the overthrow of the democratic leadership in Iran because the President nationalized the oil companies. This was in the fucking 1950's. But they won't tell you that on fox and cnn and msnbc :-)

niran said...

Hey, did a quick search abortion and genocide. Don't worry, you're in really good company. Two other rednecks who think abortion=genocide are Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell!! hahaha...

you know, for all your god bashing, I think there's a latent bible thumping, abortion clinic burning, Southern Baptist evangelist fundamentalist in you :-)The sooner you get in touch with your real self the better. tata, God bless you.

Krystalline Apostate said...

But abortion is not goddam genocide. Kapiche??
So, it's the wording that bothers you?
Yeah, you should become a lawyer, all right. Big on histrionics & pedantry, short on morals & logic.
This goes a long way back before Bush. USA oversaw and funded the overthrow of the democratic leadership in Iran because the President nationalized the oil companies. This was in the fucking 1950's. But they won't tell you that on fox and cnn and msnbc :-)
Mossedegh. Yeah, I'm quite familiar w/it.
I'm always the 1st to cop to my country's failings.
But in this country, women aren't killed for 'honor', children don't get fucking bombs strapped to them, fetuses aren't aborted based on gender.
We got our warts, alrighty.
& maybe we got where we are via ill-gotten gains. I've read 'Lies My Teacher Told Me' - it's enough to make an American gag.
But your little comic book world is ridiculous. Devoid of the greys the world consists of, across boundaries. Draped in monochromia, an insistence that there just HAS to be justice, dammit!
There will be, some day. But it will come at the hands of Man, not some divine hand: the world marches on, & things improve, too slowly for the likes of you & I.
you know, for all your god bashing, I think there's a latent bible thumping, abortion clinic burning, Southern Baptist evangelist fundamentalist in you :-)
Of course there is. That's why I understand the gawd-beggars so well.
I parlez-vous the freakshow.
The sooner you get in touch with your real self the better.
WYSIWYG, baby.
tata, God bless you.
Later, Borat. It's been fun, & it's been real, but it hasn't been REAL fun, if ye ken me drift.

Anonymous said...

Where to begin. Lets start with your choice to use a racist cartoon to demonize all Palestinians.

It's no better than having a cartoon with the black child stating that he doesn't know his dad, but his mom wants him to grow up to sell crack and impregnate white women. But somehow that has eluded you.

You then go on to point out the fact that honor killings is a problem within Palestinian society, but use this as an excuse to justify demonizing an entire people and supporting the Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine which includes the oppression and murder of innocent men, women and children.

Thats like identifying black on black crime/murder within the black community in the USA and then condoning the KKK in lynching any and all blacks because you consider it the "lesser of two evils" and that you proudly "withhold any sympathy until those" blacks "get their shit together". You share the same logic as racists. I could go on and on of all the fallacies you have exhibited.

Honor killings are savage and backward, but using the crimes of some to demonize and justify the brutal crimes against an entire ethnicity is irrational. Some may flat out call it racism.

Krystalline Apostate said...

Yeesh, anonymous - obviously you didn't read the post.
Here, some qualifying statements, since your reading comprehension is so fucking limited:
(To give credit where it's due, there are Pali's who are actively working to change this.)
And:
We have a group here (mostly Arab Muslims, not restricted to Palestine) that
And:
Of course, nothing is quite monochromatic, as this link shows there are varying degrees of Sharia law in different countries.
And:
Honor killings are a barbaric, archaic holdover from earlier traditions. Note also, that the Palestinian Authority still doesn't prosecute, as this is a holdover from when the Jordanians ruled the Gaza Strip, the last vestige of which was in 1988, via a law that is nearly 50 years old.
And if this were ANY OTHER COUNTRY, you'd be demanding some feet being held to the fire.

And your statement:

You then go on to point out the fact that honor killings is a problem within Palestinian society, but use this as an excuse to justify demonizing an entire people and supporting the Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestine

Is a load of shit. Typical empty rhetoric. There is no 'ethnic cleansing' going on. Of course, don't let the facts get in your way, buckaroo.
I could go on and on of all the fallacies you have exhibited.
But the only 'shot' you fire is the race card.
Evidence of the Texas sharp shooter fallacy.
I don't believe in double standards.
Sadly, you do.