left biblioblography: Nihilo Nihil Fit - More Fun With Thermodynamics

Sunday, April 22, 2007

Nihilo Nihil Fit - More Fun With Thermodynamics

(Crossposted at Gods4suckers.net)

The theist's song:

"I got plenty of nothing
And nothing is plenty for me." Frank Sinatra, I Got Plenty O' Nothin'

The atheist's song:

"Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something to be with me
Nothing from nothing leaves nothing
You gotta have something to be with me."

- Billy Preston, Nothing From Nothing

Here's another flashcard - use it to your heart's content.

I've run into this nonsense on the 'Net more often than I care to - it's simply semantical wordplay, and really, fairly ridiculous.

We constantly hear this crap about the 'Uncaused Cause'. Or 'How did the universe pop into being?'

Sophistry is the word that comes to mind.

The Internet abounds with amateur armchair philosophers (I count myself amongst them) - as if the ability to regurgitate some stream-of-consciousness is validation in and of itself, like for instance, this clown.

I call him a clown, because he blathers on about the 'Uncaused Cause', with all the tired canards of stereotypes, and a witless ignorance of science.

I watched this debate unfold, and just shook my head. It's just too easy to debunk this.

So let's debone the red herring, and fry it up for tonight's dinner, shall we?

The First Law of Thermodynamics (aka the Conservation of Energy) stipulates that energy can't be destroyed - that it only changes. So, unless there's some scientific evidence to state otherwise, we will need to presuppose that energy is infinite in nature.

There - Herr Herring is now descaled. Now to fillet it:

As of May of last year (hat tip to Stardust for this one), apparently there was a contracting universe prior to this one.

According to some proposals, the Big Bang is a repeating cycle. Universes might expand, then shrink back to a point, then expand again. Thus the “bang” would be really more like a bounce.

So, infinite regress is back in the fold. Energy is infinite: the universe, not. Critical philosophers, rejoice!

There you go - science adheres to the complete opposite of exnihilation. Logic demands no less, and neither should we.

Newsflash: it's the religious who claim something from nothing.

And nothing's plenty for them.

Stumble Upon Toolbar

15 comments:

beepbeepitsme said...

I could never understand why the concept of an infinte regress was any less plausible than ONE uncaused cause anyway. If you make the cause for one uncaused cause, surely that leaves the floodgate open for many of them? Perhaps even an infinite amount of uncaused causes.

And by the way, they are having a lovely time constructing strawman arguments against you on the said blog.

It has been fun for me on that blog, even if only archamgel has been able to understand my point.

Mesoforte said...

200+ comment debates are so annoying. It never seems to advance anything. Oh well, I had fun positing the usual questions (after everyone else was gone). Be sure and give Archangel and niran heck next time they rear their outdated arguments. ^_^

Krystalline Apostate said...

MF - I wish I could get 200+ comments.
Color me green w/envy, & turn the page...

beepbeepitsme said...

KA:

Niran is posting at my blog. So I will direct him to this argument if you like?

Krystalline Apostate said...

BBIM - I'm watching the debate w/some interest & vast amusement.
Sure, direct him here, what the hey?
But it's blaringly obvious that he's entered the discussion convinced he's right, & no 1 can tell him otherwise.

Krystalline Apostate said...

BBIM - oops, too late. Niran moved on. Swaggered off, trumpeting his triumph.
MF - those were all good questions, but these fellows are deliberately leaving the hypothesis open - the progression is, get people to agree (in some cases it's evident there's some chest-thumping going on on both sides) about the 'uncaused cause', & then consolidate w/the theistic POV. However, getting them to define 'god' 1st isn't going to work in this instance.
I think it's best in this case to cut to the root of the pathology.

BEAJ said...

KA, that pic is the one I use for my Youtube homepage background.

beepbeepitsme said...

I haven't been out of bed for long, so, I didn't get to direct him here, but I see that you directed him here anyway. What's the bet that he is a "no show."

Krystalline Apostate said...

BEAJ - is it really? I usually only hit Youtube for a quick clip or 2.
Not crazy about the debating layout there.
Then again, I'm anything but photogenic.
BBIM:
What's the bet that he is a "no show."
Oh, he'll show up. His type almost always does.

BEAJ said...

I don't go to Youtube to debate.
I have made 10 short videos to date.
Check out my page.

Mesoforte said...

MF - I wish I could get 200+ comments.
Color me green w/envy, & turn the page...


Wasn't there one instance on one of your posts that me and goose ran the comments up beyond 190 comments?

MF - those were all good questions, but these fellows are deliberately leaving the hypothesis open - the progression is, get people to agree (in some cases it's evident there's some chest-thumping going on on both sides) about the 'uncaused cause', & then consolidate w/the theistic POV. However, getting them to define 'god' 1st isn't going to work in this instance.
I think it's best in this case to cut to the root of the pathology.


Yeah, theists like to hide their arguments in ambiguity. It'd be easier if they'd just be honest.

Krystalline Apostate said...

BEAJ - pretty cool.

MF - I'd forgotten about that post. That was WAY long ago. Always wonder what happened to the Goosester.
Wasn't that the thread about the Arujo killing?
I even drafted a St. Anselm's argument thread for the 2 of ya.
Yeah, theists like to hide their arguments in ambiguity.
Well, I can actually see the structure, it makes a little sense.
1st, address the 'uncaused cause', THEN indulge in defining it.
If it weren't about religion, I'd say it was a fair structure.

karen said...

I checked Goose's blog a few days ago and it wasn't there anymore.

Krystalline Apostate said...

karen - so Goose is AWOL.
Hope he's okay. Nice fella, if a little repetitive.

mountaintop said...

Hey everyone,
I just stumbled across this blog. I appreciate you sharing your honest thoughts and feelings about these important issues. If you're really interested in all views of this, I'd really like for you to check out this article:

http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html

Let me know what you think. Thanks!