tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post114882362064553011..comments2023-07-08T06:13:19.344-07:00Comments on biblioblography: LIPPING OFF TO GOD: SOME DREAMERYKrystalline Apostatehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149917144387726452006-06-09T22:25:00.000-07:002006-06-09T22:25:00.000-07:00SNTC:Rats will risk their lives across electrical ...SNTC:<BR/><B>Rats will risk their lives across electrical grids to save not only their own babies but even baby birds and other animals small enough for them to carry.</B><BR/>What? I'm going to require a link on that 1. It sounds way out there (nothing personal).<BR/>It wouldn't surprise me, though. <BR/>It's a wild world we live in.Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149607918788703192006-06-06T08:31:00.000-07:002006-06-06T08:31:00.000-07:00Ra said:"We tend to be a speciocentric lot, don't ...Ra said:"We tend to be a speciocentric lot, don't we?"<BR/><BR/><BR/>Absolutely and it is just stupid to do so. Believe it or not, it is the animals that teach us altruism. Rats will risk their lives across electrical grids to save not only their own babies but even baby birds and other animals small enough for them to carry. Rats are awesome teachers! And make great pets! <BR/><BR/>AmyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149541095522056492006-06-05T13:58:00.000-07:002006-06-05T13:58:00.000-07:00Goose:I apologizeDe nada, mi amigo. Obliged.SNTC:I...Goose:<BR/><B>I apologize</B><BR/>De nada, mi amigo. Obliged.<BR/><BR/>SNTC:<BR/><B>It is the biblical idea that god gave man dominion over animals and made man more special than four legged furry animals that has led to the abuse and inhumane deaths of many animals who were believed not to have any emotions, thoughts or feelings of their own.</B><BR/>Very spot on. <BR/>We tend to be a speciocentric lot, don't we?Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149528321979497432006-06-05T10:25:00.000-07:002006-06-05T10:25:00.000-07:00RaI must have missed it when it was posted, but wi...Ra<BR/><BR/>I must have missed it when it was posted, but will look it up. <BR/><BR/>This debate gets old especially when you know for a FACT that social animals have many similar emotions and thoughts. Even rats(they are the extreme case of altruism) have a sense of empathy and even laugh when you tickle them. It is the biblical idea that god gave man dominion over animals and made man more special than four legged furry animals that has led to the abuse and inhumane deaths of many animals who were believed not to have any emotions, thoughts or feelings of their own. And that just is NOT the case! They absolutely share many and sometimes more emotions, thoughts and feelings than humans. I like to think of myself as just another animal on this earth and not a superior human. And <BR/>I am very happy with that thought. It is the ultimate spiritual high that one can never get when they seperate themselves from the animal and natural world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149487207435390752006-06-04T23:00:00.000-07:002006-06-04T23:00:00.000-07:00I apologizeI apologizeToffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149467648527851332006-06-04T17:34:00.000-07:002006-06-04T17:34:00.000-07:00Goose:Yes, i am probably pushing this way beyond i...Goose:<BR/><B>Yes, i am probably pushing this way beyond it's scope.</B><BR/>Well, yeesh, you ask the same questions over & over again. You did this same M.O at the NGB. No matter how well you were answered, you just kept repeating the same questions ad nauseum.<BR/>I've got a long fuse, but everyone has limits.Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149407075135047862006-06-04T00:44:00.000-07:002006-06-04T00:44:00.000-07:00Bf, RAYes, i am probably pushing this way beyond i...Bf, RA<BR/><BR/>Yes, i am probably pushing this way beyond it's scope.<BR/><BR/>Later!<BR/><BR/>regards,<BR/><BR/>GHToffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149406312167408252006-06-04T00:31:00.000-07:002006-06-04T00:31:00.000-07:00Goose,I think you have some good points; but I do ...Goose,<BR/><BR/>I think you have some good points; but I do think you should give RA a breather. It’s obvious that his patience has grown thin on this thread. He’s not going anywhere—so your going to get plenty more opportunities to learn about his thoughts on the issue. I am sure he would be willing to dialogue on free will vs. determinism (& morality) on another occasion, yet at this time, pushing the issue further now will only cause him to stand off more in the future. That’s at least from what I can tell thus far—I could be wrong as I have been on plenty of occasions. <BR/><BR/>Peace be with you my friend,<BR/><BR/>~bfSteveiT1Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15271837187081908611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149404490214566022006-06-04T00:01:00.000-07:002006-06-04T00:01:00.000-07:00RA"So your actions and thoughts are just effects o...RA<BR/><BR/>"So your actions and thoughts are just effects of preceeding causes... do you think rationality and free will can exist under these conditions?<BR/>Sure, why not?<BR/>Are your actions just caused by preceeding events or can you freely choose what you are going to do?<BR/>How many ways are you going to ask this question, until the answer changes?<BR/>Both."<BR/><BR/>Ok 1st you say everything can be explained by cause&effect, ie. every event is determined.<BR/><BR/>Then you say free will also exists, which means that free actions aren't determined by previous events.<BR/><BR/>"Yes but that wasn't what i was asking. Do you hold animals (any animal) morally responsible for its actions?<BR/>Nope.<BR/>Not my species, not really my problem."<BR/><BR/>So morals arise only in man then?...Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149380951968506452006-06-03T17:29:00.000-07:002006-06-03T17:29:00.000-07:00Goose:So your actions and thoughts are just effect...Goose:<BR/><B>So your actions and thoughts are just effects of preceeding causes... do you think rationality and free will can exist under these conditions?</B><BR/>Sure, why not?<BR/><B>Are your actions just caused by preceeding events or can you freely choose what you are going to do?</B><BR/>How many ways are you going to ask this question, until the answer changes?<BR/>Both.<BR/><B>Yes but that wasn't what i was asking. Do you hold animals (any animal) morally responsible for its actions?</B><BR/>Nope.<BR/>Not my species, not really my problem.Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149366880291556392006-06-03T13:34:00.000-07:002006-06-03T13:34:00.000-07:00RA"For the millionth time: yes."So your actions an...RA<BR/><BR/>"For the millionth time: yes."<BR/><BR/>So your actions and thoughts are just effects of preceeding causes... do you think rationality and free will can exist under these conditions? <BR/><BR/>Are your actions just caused by preceeding events or can you freely choose what you are going to do?<BR/><BR/>"Hey, I did a post on dolphins. Guess loosey Goosey missed that 1. <BR/>"<BR/><BR/>Yes but that wasn't what i was asking. Do you hold animals (any animal) morally responsible for its actions?Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149364898279804782006-06-03T13:01:00.000-07:002006-06-03T13:01:00.000-07:00Goose:So everything can be explained naturally by ...Goose:<BR/><B>So everything can be explained naturally by cause and effect?</B><BR/>For the millionth time: yes.<BR/>SNTC:<BR/><B>Shoot elephants have a wider range of emotions and thoughts than humans do. </B><BR/>Hey, I did a post on dolphins. Guess loosey Goosey missed that 1.Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149353230853334322006-06-03T09:47:00.000-07:002006-06-03T09:47:00.000-07:00Goosehenry said:"Well given evolution its quite ha...Goosehenry said:"Well given evolution its quite hard to combine naturalism with free will, consciousness, morality, rationality etc."<BR/><BR/>You have got to be kidding???<BR/>All species on this planet have free will, consciousness, morality and rationality. We are not the only animals that have thoughts and feelings. Shoot elephants have a wider range of emotions and thoughts than humans do. Maybe they are the chosen ones? My bet would be on the elephants.<BR/><BR/>AmyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149147426594741782006-06-01T00:37:00.000-07:002006-06-01T00:37:00.000-07:00Goose:"Then you cannot know if He exists or not.My...Goose:<BR/>"Then you cannot know if He exists or not.<BR/>My money's on NOT."<BR/><BR/>Ok. so you are open to the possibility anyways<BR/><BR/>"Don't you know those are all noises we make to ourselves, to quench the fear?"<BR/><BR/>No i didn't. Please explain. What fear?<BR/><BR/>"Both actually. If you subscribe to only one of them you are allowing for supernatural causes.<BR/>What utter folderol.<BR/>There is NO supernatural. There is NO GOD. There's just us, and everything just is. "<BR/><BR/>So everything can be explained naturally by cause and effect?Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149119194849232762006-05-31T16:46:00.000-07:002006-05-31T16:46:00.000-07:00Goose:Then you cannot know if He exists or not.My ...Goose:<BR/><B>Then you cannot know if He exists or not.</B><BR/>My money's on NOT.<BR/><B>Well given evolution its quite hard to combine naturalism with free will, consciousness, morality, rationality etc.</B><BR/>Oh, all those <I>supernatural</I> qualities.<BR/>Don't you know those are all noises we make to ourselves, to quench the fear?<BR/><B>Both actually. If you subscribe to only one of them you are allowing for supernatural causes.</B><BR/>What utter folderol.<BR/>There is NO supernatural. There is NO GOD. There's just us, and everything just is. <BR/>All your romantic alibis are just that: romantic notions gone wildly astray.Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149107670445056212006-05-31T13:34:00.000-07:002006-05-31T13:34:00.000-07:00SNTC"Goose henry your beliefs are poison to the na...SNTC<BR/><BR/>"Goose henry your beliefs are poison to the natural world and you are guilty of poluting and destroying all natural life. IMO"<BR/><BR/>Now that is something i have never heard before.<BR/><BR/>Imaginge that i am guilty of all that...Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149107440116939302006-05-31T13:30:00.000-07:002006-05-31T13:30:00.000-07:00RA"you never answered the question... do you want ...RA<BR/><BR/>"you never answered the question... do you want God to reveal himself to you or not?<BR/>Not any more. I don't need any little voices in my head."<BR/><BR/>Then you cannot know if He exists or not.<BR/><BR/>"What 'holes' are you talking about?"<BR/><BR/>Well given evolution its quite hard to combine naturalism with free will, consciousness, morality, rationality etc.<BR/><BR/>"I guess you support naturalism right? Everything can be explained naturally by cause&effect? That would be your philososphy then.<BR/>Really? Which approach are you talking about? The methodological, or the metaphysical?"<BR/><BR/>Both actually. If you subscribe to only one of them you are allowing for supernatural causes.Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149101389336033662006-05-31T11:49:00.000-07:002006-05-31T11:49:00.000-07:00GooseNo, not so. I can assure you i have no "pure ...Goose<BR/><B>No, not so. I can assure you i have no "pure heart" and he revealed Himself to me.</B><BR/>I suspect what is meant by pure here has to do with a total willingness to have God reveal himself, or something along that line, not purity in regard to life in general.<BR/><BR/><B>About free will - it is a too simple an explanation i know, especially after what you have been through.<BR/><BR/>But if we remove free will, there is no point with anything is there?</B><BR/><BR/>Well, I can't recall how we all weighed in on free will, but it seems like something man has, god or no god. It's simply a matter of making choices about what we do. We definitely have that ability sans god. It's with god that it gets iffy.<BR/><BR/>But I don't see what free will has to do with God's capacity to have given me some sign that I wasn't alone, some sort of solace in the moment-even without stopping the abuse. You know, some kind of footprints-in-the-sand thing. That wouldn't interfere with free will.<BR/>If the answer is silence, hell, I can pray to a popsicle stick and get that.<BR/><BR/><B>There are also things i am frustrated about, things i would like to change. <BR/><BR/>But i rest in the fact that justice will be served one day. </B><BR/>Good luck with that. Remember, offenders can have salvation too. Then, where's the justice?<BR/>And what point would justice serve then? Isn't that more revenge than justice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149088771533734532006-05-31T08:19:00.000-07:002006-05-31T08:19:00.000-07:00Why do christians think that without god there is ...Why do christians think that without god there is no purpose for life? That is the most retatrded thing I have ever heard! I live because I can reproduce like all other species on this planet that gives me the greatest purpose in life and that is to see my offspring make it to the next generation strong and healthy to assure me that my genes live on. For those that cant or dont want to reproduce they live like every other species to contribute to the hole of the species. It really is that simple, but when you polute the simplicity of life with evil religious beliefs you destroy all life in a slow painful drawn out way. Much like we see going on around us. I.E. War, rape, child abuse, deforestation and the list goes on......<BR/><BR/>Goose henry your beliefs are poison to the natural world and you are guilty of poluting and destroying all natural life. IMO <BR/><BR/>AmyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149083576466081622006-05-31T06:52:00.000-07:002006-05-31T06:52:00.000-07:00Goose:Some of your commentary is so...goofy, I'm u...Goose:<BR/>Some of your commentary is so...goofy, I'm unsure where to begin.<BR/><BR/><B>you never answered the question... do you want God to reveal himself to you or not?</B><BR/>Not any more. I don't need any little voices in my head.<BR/><B>Asking Him to without wanting Him to is contradictory, no use.</B><BR/>Well, since He doesn't exist, I won't waste my time.<BR/><B>Why then has atheism (as a philosophy) so many holes in it?</B><BR/>I'm really quite surprised at this comment, as you've been at the NGB for quite some time now.<BR/>As udonman points out, it's not a philosophy. There are multiple 'philosophies' in atheism, too many to enumerate here. What 'holes' are you talking about?<BR/><B>I think about this everyday and atheism, so far, cannot explain the most basic things that makes me human</B><BR/>Why do you require an explanation? Think about that 1 for a while.<BR/><B>But i rest in the fact that justice will be served one day.</B><BR/>Bad news: there is no justice. There's just us.<BR/><B>I guess you support naturalism right? Everything can be explained naturally by cause&effect? That would be your philososphy then.</B><BR/>Really? Which approach are you talking about? The methodological, or the metaphysical?Krystalline Apostatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044558668644447375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149056850718907572006-05-30T23:27:00.000-07:002006-05-30T23:27:00.000-07:00UdonmanEven if atheism is just "lack of belief" yo...Udonman<BR/><BR/>Even if atheism is just "lack of belief" you anyhow need an alternative philosophy for the creation of the universe, meaning of life etc. Right?<BR/><BR/>I guess you support naturalism right? Everything can be explained naturally by cause&effect? That would be your philososphy then.<BR/><BR/>Correct me if i am wrong.<BR/><BR/>GOOSE EGG? LOLToffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149052901370145662006-05-30T22:21:00.000-07:002006-05-30T22:21:00.000-07:00More thinkers - more atheists?Why then has atheism...More thinkers - more atheists?<BR/><BR/>Why then has atheism (as a philosophy) so many holes in it?<BR/><BR/>I think about this everyday and atheism, so far, cannot explain the most basic things that makes me humanToffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149052732592680852006-05-30T22:18:00.000-07:002006-05-30T22:18:00.000-07:00RA you never answered the question... do you want ...RA <BR/><BR/>you never answered the question... do you want God to reveal himself to you or not?<BR/><BR/>Asking Him to without wanting Him to is contradictory, no use.Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149052618295614622006-05-30T22:16:00.000-07:002006-05-30T22:16:00.000-07:00Karen said"He only manifests himself to those who ...Karen said<BR/><BR/>"He only manifests himself to those who truly seek him with a pure heart."<BR/><BR/>No, not so. I can assure you i have no "pure heart" and he revealed Himself to me.<BR/><BR/>About free will - it is a too simple an explanation i know, especially after what you have been through.<BR/><BR/>But if we remove free will, there is no point with anything is there?<BR/><BR/>There are also things i am frustrated about, things i would like to change. <BR/><BR/>But i rest in the fact that justice will be served one day.Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20169168.post-1149052141668052202006-05-30T22:09:00.000-07:002006-05-30T22:09:00.000-07:00HMDKWell if you are sincere about what you are say...HMDK<BR/><BR/>Well if you are sincere about what you are saying you will certainly get to know God.<BR/><BR/>Anyhow, you say that if everyone would drop their religions and start helping out we could make a better world.<BR/><BR/>This implies that all theism is wrong and you are right. Quite a bold statement, what makes you so sure of that?Toffehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056150137595422127noreply@blogger.com